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Craig Alright, alright. Just an echo goes from the machine. I don’t know what that was. This is media mothership though on Edge Radio 99.3 FM and I’m your host, Craig, joined by co-host Taylor. Hello. Special guest Marcus. Marcus Howdy. How are? Craig We going, we are all locked in now. And I feel I. Marcus Feel good, Chad, are we? Craig Locked in and we’ve got all systems green on on streaming, so we are indeed streaming on YouTube and Twitch as well as on the Internet WW. Edgeradio.org dot AU do people still say WWW in front of URL these days? Is that dropped? Taylor I didn’t say it. Yeah, I think. Craig I. It’s dropped. Alright, well, edgeradio.org dot AU also has a streaming. On media mothership, we explore how media shapes the reality around us and as we deep dove into a few weeks back with understanding. The Donald Trump Zelinski fall out through the John Cena Hilton, we’re updating that now with our exploration of the latest WrestleMania event. 2041 so all that and more coming up. On medium mothership. Marcus That was brilliant. I I think it was the little grin that sold for me. Craig I’m getting better. I’m getting better. So, WrestleMania 41, let’s set it up with a little bit of an explanation. Right. So we’re submitting 41 in my notes, notes that I’ve put together via ChatGPT, I confess, which is why it’s so great you’re here, Marcus. Just to Fact Check all of this information. So it was. It was in. OK, well, I think this is. Already wrong is in. It was in. Las Vegas because it’s saying here is in. Paradise, Nevada. No, it was in. Marcus Yes. Craig That’s not a. Taylor Good start. Well, remember Chet, GPT is like 2 years out. Craig Ah. So this is actually copilot. Now he’s copilot. Taylor You should have used grok. Craig OK, OK. So it says here next it was a two nights spectacle featuring WWE’s biggest stars from Raw and Smackdown. Is that true? That’s that’s good. Taylor OK, that makes. Sense. Craig What’s the difference between raw and smack down? Marcus The two the 2A shows of WWE Raw airs on Monday nights Smackdown airs on Friday nights, and they both have their own individual roster of wrestlers because they’re the the roster is that loaded, they need 2-3 hour shows to get everyone on. Speaker France. Marcus There. And they also have different titles that are defended. On them at this point in time, RAW has got the World Heavyweight Championship, the. Women’s World Championship and the Intercontinental Championship men’s Yep, plus the women’s tag team belts and one of the men’s tag team belts. There are two men’s tag team belts, but it’s just like the world belts and the WWE belts. Like how what’s the difference and on on smack down they have got the undisputed championship, which is seen as the premiership. On women. Speaker What is? Marcus The main title, which is more important than the world heavyweight, even though some of them are heavyweights, it’s got the women. Championship not to be confused with the Women’s World Championship. They’re two different titles. They also have the US men’s, the US women’s and one of the men’s Tag team championships. Craig One of just hearing that list of belts and championships it did come across a YouTube short conspiracy theory about what sceners possible plan might be, which is to basically it sounds a bit like when the DC or Marvel Universe kills off all their superheroes and reboots with a year. One kind of fresh slate. Someone was saying that that scene is basically going to destroy the belts, right? These belts are going to be retired or something, and they’re going to reboot. Some some championship narrative, does that make sense? Does that have you heard rumours? Is that is that an exciting thing that I’ve said on? Marcus A look, it’s it that has absolutely happened in wrestling promotions before CW in the dying days back in 1999, literally did a a company wide reboot reboot where all ongoing feuds. Stopped and all titles were vacated. And they didn’t make things any better for themselves. They still went out of business. About 18 months later. Craig Because is there a barrier for entry in wrestling in terms of understanding the the storyline like there is in comics? Marcus And entering wrestling is extremely difficult because it is an ongoing narrative that goes back decades. It’s very hard to find a point to slot into probably the best time to start watching. Even then, you’re still gonna, you know, be missing a lot of context. Because. Needs to be a very high turnover for wrestlers because they used to be on the road performing 300 days a year. Yeah, massive injury, massive burnout, a lot of problems with substance abuse. So generally speaking, the rest would only be at the top of the card for three or four years, and then they’d be gone these days because you know, they actually get time off and actually get to look after themselves. A lot of wrestlers. On the on the show right now, I’ve been on there for 10-15 years, so there’s less turnover, which means the storylines are, you know, they’re they’re longer and there are more implications. If there’s any one time of the year, but also it’s it’s odd because even though there’s this convoluted back story to every rest and promotion, it’s only people only watch for a couple of years. Jim Jim Cornett, who was a Booker for many years, has coined what he calls the seven year rule. Basically, every seven years, there will be enough of a turnover in wrestling fandom. Speaker Where’s? Marcus And enough people will have stopped watching because they will have grown out of it that you can start telling the same story again. No one. Notice. Craig Where are we at that cycle? Do you? Marcus Think it’s a very ongoing thing. I think with with the other thing is that he coined that prior to the Internet, so it used to be a show it there once, like a weekly show it there once like very rarely get repeated unless you know there was a marathon or something along those lines or a highlight reel. Craig Yeah. Speaker Right. Marcus And if you wanted to watch a paper, you had to hunt. Craig Down the videotape of it. But now, with the Internet, as we’ll be dipping into tonight, that information is quite easy to hand. You can see replays. It is because it is. I mean, one of the things that is different at the moment is, is the distribution through Netflix has broadened its engagement. So now can you watch raw if you have Netflix accounts at the moment, right? Marcus If you have, if you have Netflix, you can watch raw and smack down. I’m pretty sure you can watch NXT, which is the developmental B show. Craig Live like pretty close. To where it’s being added in the US. Marcus Yeah, they they broadcast it live here. Craig As well. Wow. Right. Yep. So you can. We are at a I think when I was chatting with you about WrestleMania, it’s it’s a Golden Age. Would you say in terms of? It’s engagement at the moment, it’s popularity. It’s profile. Marcus It’s it’s definitely in its third major boom period of sort of the last 40 years because there was the initial rise of hulkamania and then, you know, after after the steroid trial in the early 90s, wrestling in general took a massive downturn from the early. The mid 90s started coming back up with WCW, which was then WWE’s rival with the New World Order Angle in 1996 and WWF responded with the Attitude era, which sort of late 97 early 2001 where the rock and stone cold were at the top of the ladder and then the business took a massive nosedive after WCW went out of business and the. The there was some questionable booking decisions following the end of the attitude era and now this is the third major boom period 24 years later. Craig So yeah, clearly Netflix has also seen this as. As a a good thing to bankroll and WrestleMania. So this was WrestleMania 41 which was which is the first WrestleMania to air on Netflix. We’re just here that it’s the highest grossing and most viewed WrestleMania in WWE history. Have you come across any data? Suggesting that it’s the sense that this WrestleMania. Was shattering. Records of attendance or merchandise. Marcus It it didn’t shatter records of attendance, it would have shattered records of the gate that they made because they keep jacking up the price on. The. Tickets, so it absolutely will. I I absolutely believe that it’s the highest grossing mania just because of how overpriced the. Tickets have become. Speaker 5 Uh. Marcus I mean, really wanted to 1997 WrestleMania 13, which has one of the greatest matches ever, and you know they was they were giving tickets away because no one wanted to see it and also had the lowest buy rate ever. But the the thing about me 41 is that yeah, I I believe that, but also it it demonstrably doesn’t have. It doesn’t have the highest attendance because there are. Speaker Hello. Marcus The the arena they’ve they’ve wrestled in bigger in stadiums. Rather they’ve wrestled in bigger stadiums. They’re they’re they’ve they’ve been I think 3. Craig Right. Speaker Yeah. Marcus Wrestlemanias that have had over 100,000 people in the building at. Craig The same time I do like imagining what the views like from those Nosebleed seats right at the. Marcus Back there are YouTube or Facebook shorts where you see people actually they pull out their phones and they zoom in to the TV screen above the ring. By it’s utterly woeful. At that point. You’re not there to see a match. You are there to experience. The crowd. Craig The atmosphere. Yeah, we should. Still be good. All right, so major storylines that went down. So it says here the event featured John Cena’s final WrestleMania match where he defeated Cody Rhodes to win the undisputed WWE Championship, marking his record 17th world title is. Marcus That yes, that was one of the major stories going in. Just to just to answer a question from Paul, when you asked the best time to start watching the best time. Craig That happened. Yeah, yeah. Marcus To watch wrestling, it’s probably to start. It is the beginning of January. Craig Ohh really. So there’s an entry point there. At the start of. Marcus The year? Yep. Because at the start of January, they’re building to the first major premium live event of the year, the Royal Rumble, which happens in late January, early February. And whoever wins the Royal Rumble gets a title shot at one of the major belts at Wrestle Mania, so that way that that crowns the number one contender for the biggest show of the year. So the story that they’ve told going in with Sina is that he announced last year it was going to be his last ever year. He’s doing his retirement run. It was going to be his last Royal Rumble. It was going to be his last. Domination chamber, so Royal Rumble determines who challenges for one belt elimination chamber happens after it determines who’s going to challenge for the other belt. I remember thinking. All right, cool. Well, he’s not winning the rumble then because he’s not going to. Be the elimination chamber. If he wins the rumble. So. Came second at the Rumble and then won the Elimination chamber under dodgy circumstances, and there was that famous heel tone where they’d been teasing that Cody was gonna turn evil, but actually it was Sina who aligned himself with the rock. Craig Really. So there was some teasing there, Cody. Marcus Oh yeah. He’ll turn. So Cody Rhodes was previously the undisputed champion and the and the top baby face of the company. Like the main guy of the company. And there was this bit with rock, the rock trying, who’s sort of the main villain. Like he’s like Doctor Claw from Inspector Gadget trying to corrupt. Cody and take his soul and in the end, Cody told him to go and F himself and. But then it turned out the action. People thought that there was going to be a twist with Cody turning heel, but the. Actual twist was. Craig That scene I turned heel. So cultural impact with appearances from celebrities like Travis Scott and. Speaker Alright. Craig And the return of Becky Lynch, WrestleMania 41 reinforced WWE’s influence in Mentor Entertainment. Travis Scott, Peggy Lynch. What’s? What’s that? Marcus We’ll start with Becky Lynch first, because that’s much easier. Becky Lynch is she’s been one of WWE’s top wrestlers for about 7 or 8 years, not just one of the women wrestlers. One of the top wrestlers, full stop. She just took eleven months off after her last contract ran out to spend time. With her daughter. And there was absolutely no announcement that she was going to be back. She joined in. With layer of Alqueria whose tag team partner had been injured. And so when Becky comes back at the at the at the at WrestleMania with absolutely no warning when her theme music hits, everyone went nuts. Craig Right, right. And again, it’s that theme music and the audience picks up and and the sense of. You know, cultural impact that this. Speaker Yeah. Craig Figure. Marcus So that was Becky Lynch. Being there was a big one for wrestling fans. Travis Scott being there is this very bizarre thing that Triple H has been doing where so for anyone who’s unaware, Triple H is the Booker that had the head head of content where he went to a random Travis Scott concert last year and gave Travis Scott the ******** belt which he revived. And they’ve done this. Craig A music concert. Marcus Yeah, went to an actual cause. Travis Scott’s, you know, Grammy Award winner, sells out really big venues and yeah, Triple H went and gave him the ******** belt at a concert, and they’ve done this what they’ve done with it is really strange because they’ve essentially turned Travis Scott into. I guess the Silver Surfer surfer to the rocks, Galactus or like he’s the like the mouth of Sauron where he he just randomly appears but he doesn’t actually say anything. He really do anything he used appears and will occasionally like try to hit someone in the ring and that’s all he does. Like he’s contributed nothing other than a couple of cheap shots to Cody. Rhodes. Craig Right. Marcus And yeah, it was just. So. This is one of those moments where everyone knows that wrestling is predetermined. It’s scripted. It’s not a real conflict, and people get frustrated with Ohh man Travis Scott at WrestleMania 41 really stunk up the joint and people say, you know, it’s not a real fight. You know that it’s not real. Yeah, but it’s still bad storytelling because. Speaker 5 Was. Marcus The match that Cena had with Cody was not very good because. Craig At WrestleMania, it was. Marcus Atrocious. And the reason it’s atrocious is because the storyline they’re going for is that people have been asking for Cena to turn heel and become a bad guy for 22 years because they got sick of him a very long time ago and there. But he’s been part time for the last 10 years. And it’s weird because he was a babyface for so long. Everyone booed him when he was a full timer because they hated him and they were sick of him. And then when he became a part timer, all of a sudden they loved him. They couldn’t get enough of him and they wanted him to come back. And so the problem is that his his heel turn and it’s like he could have just coasted by and just played the hits and give people what they want. Over the last year. But he’s actually, you know, trying something new with the heel turn. But it’s just not really working because he’s acting indignant towards the audience for the the negative reactions that they gave him. Craig All right. Marcus 10 years ago. Whereas the last 10 years they’ve loved him and it’s just there’s a really big disconnect between his reason for turning heel. But the way the fans are actually treating him in. Craig Right. Real life. Yeah. So I guess the script that he’s. Working with and on is that he? Yeah. Has given so much to the fans. The fans are keep taking from him. It’s too much and that kind of. Antagonism towards the fans that that, yeah, maybe it has an old. History to it, but. Marcus It’s just and the the, the core tenet of a heel. The the main principle of a heel is that you don’t cheer the heels you Boo for them. And so a lot of wrestlers, when they turn heel, will deliberately stop doing the flashy moves that everyone loves because they don’t want people to cheer for them. So Seina has completely stripped back his style, and this is the first match he’s wrestled. The heel. He hasn’t wrestled once in the lead up between the the elimination Chamber and Mania seven weeks. Cody didn’t defend the belt once since the rumble, so it’s over two months. So going in this very strange lack of heat, I suppose, and seeing as just deliberately, he kept on stepping outside of the ring so that he couldn’t get pinned. He, like the match, couldn’t legally end, and it was an obvious he’ll take to get the audience to vote for him. But the audience kept on cheering. Actually, it’s a bit of an odd one because. Like people comparing it to rock versus Hogan at Mania 18. Oh yes, where the rock was the the baby face. And Hogan was the irritable villain. But they they cheered for Hogan and they booed for the rock. But this, they just sort of the audience sort of booed for everyone they booed, seen it when they were supposed to. They booed code. Craig Yeah. Marcus He because I guess they’ve gotten sick of him. But it’s also because, like, and it goes back to one of the strangest things about WWE, the last sort of 1520 years is the disconnect between the people who are in the stadiums and arenas watching these major events and the people watching at home. Because the people who are watching it in the stadiums and and the arenas. They are the people with the disposable income who are super nostalgic for what they watched when they were kids. So that was one of the reasons why. When Rock went up against seeing it about 10 or 12 years ago, they were they. Everyone was booing, seeing out of the building cause they hated him, hated him. But they grown up watching the rock during the attitude era, so they were cheering to see him back, whereas the kids at home will be cheering. Seen it because he’s their favourite wrestler and now we’ve got the people who are in the stadium to see senior versus Cody. Craig Hmm. Marcus Grew up watching senior at home. They were the kids cheering for senior at home. While the stadiums are booing him. And so now they’re cheering. For him, and it’s just very strange, and it was just not an entertaining match and it just ends with Travis Scott coming out. He’s, yeah, seen hits. And everyone’s like, oh, he’s here. The rock’s gonna be here. And the rock’s not there. It’s just Travis Scott awkwardly walks to the ring holding the ******** title and takes him a solid 4 minutes to walk to the ring. Like the entrances in WWE have been ridiculously long. Last couple of years, but 4 minutes it takes. Craig Was he walking slowly? High fiving. Marcus He was walking slowly. He’s working heel. So he wasn’t high fiving. He was just awkwardly staring at Cody and seeing it the entire. Way to the ring. It was terrible. It was awful, and then when he gets the, Cody distracts him and it’s just he tries to distract Cody and Cody hits him, he gets revenge for the beat down that Cody got from him and seen her and rocket elimination chamber. It’s just strange. Why is this happening and? More to the point, the thing that always breaks my suspension of disbelief because nothing requires more suspension of disbelief. The professional wrestling, if you can get into it, it’s great, but if you stop to think about it, it makes no sense. And so why is it that Travis Scott is coming out here to help Selena? But none of Cody’s allies are coming out to save him? Why, they just letting this happen? Speaker Hmm. Craig Yeah, interesting. I mean, as videos watching at moments where wrestling has broken the 4th wall and they try and. Talk about that. Manufactured moment, but just before we get past WrestleMania so it says historic matches. Seth Rollins won a dramatic triple threat match against CM Punk and Roman Reigns, with Paul Heyman’s shocking betrayal adding to the drummer. So that was what it’s defined as a historic match. How was that as a counterpoint to the? You know, seen a match? The the triple threat. Speaker Ohh. Marcus Match just just to get some context. So WrestleMania for the 1st 35 years was a one night event and then after a 7 hour mania they went. This is ridiculous and they started making it a two night. Craig Event and so when was it a one night? It was a. Marcus One night, up until a few years, for 36 years, WrestleMania. Speaker Feel. Marcus 911 night event or one day event cause like the last few went for. Craig 7 hours. That’s a long. Marcus Event the like for Mania 35 the main event. I think the main event started at midnight. And the main event is usually one of, if not the longest matches on the card and then after it finished you know 80,100 thousand people then have to get in their cars and go home. So the traffic is ungodly. Craig Alright, really. Alright, so then over 2 nights. So the triple threat match was the first night. Marcus Yes, sorry. So the point that I that, that, that that I was getting to with that is that there’s a lot of discussion over whether or not cause the main event is the last event of a show. But there’s some discussion as to whether or not night 1 of WrestleMania Constitu. Roots our main event, or if it is the midpoint of the whole weekend. Craig Right. And I guess by that also the bragging rights, yes. To to be that in that event. Marcus And the storyline going in, which is very much a real life storyline, is that so there were three guys CM Punk rename Phil Brooks, Seth Rollins, real name Colby Lopez and Roman Reigns, real name Joanna I. So in cafe these three wrestlers all hated each other and they’ve been they’ve been building this story for about 18 months in real life. The real story going on was that Phil Brooks, who plays CM Punk. Had been at the top of the card in the early 20 tens, but and he’s a long time wrestling fan but had never gotten to main event WrestleMania, even when he was the champion. They would put Cena versus rock on at the end of the night rather than him and he was supposed to main event night one last year. The planner seemed to win the elimination chamber and challenge for the World Heavyweight belt. Craig Really. Marcus But he got his tie, his tricep torn in the Royal Rumble. And so he. Had to sit out the. Craig Tricep tour was was an accident, one of. Marcus Those unfortunate it was an accident. He was very injury prone for a couple of years. He seems to be better now. I think he’s learned how to work safer. But it the the benefit is that it ended up leading into the best feud of the year where they went. So this guy, Drew McIntyre, has accidentally injured him. Right. OK, cool. Let’s write that into the story. And these two can have a really great food out of it. Yeah. But base of the story was Punk wanted his main event and they gave him the main event night one against Rollins and Rains. Craig Yeah, right. Marcus And people are saying, well, is it a real main event? If it’s not the final match of the weekend? But basically the three of them put on an incredible triple threat match SO1V1V1 notice qualification. Whoever gets the first pinfall is the winner and the storyline going in is that Paul Heyman, who in real life is a wrestling Booker, a wrestling promoter, has been for 40 years, generally a manager of heels or heels, stables. Had been working with Roman Reigns throughout four or five years because reigns for the longest time couldn’t cut a promo to save his life. Paul Heyman and Sam Punk in real life, very good friends going back to ECW and Ring of Honour. And so the the storyline going in was that Hayman had to leave, had to leave Roman Reigns and be in CM Punk’s corner. And then at the climax of the match, he’d betrayed them both and allies himself with Seth Rollins and the. Even though in isolation it was a great match and there’s a really beautiful moment where it’s only been done on fan cams, well, you know, phones after the match ended. But off to the end of the match, everyone everyone else leaves and it’s just Sam punk in the ring by himself and he’s just overcome with emotion. He kisses the the ring and he’s in tears and they start playing his music as. He. Leaves. Yeah. So they were like, yeah, this is your main event. You’ve earned this. Congratulations. We we really appreciate you. And now they’ve just on on raw 2 nights later on the Monday night, they’ve gone straight into. Alright cool so. Rolands and Paul Heyman have now started a heel faction, and that’s going to be our so Rowlands has been a baby face for a few years now. Everyone loves him. They sing his theme song and everything, and they’re like, this is gonna be our new storyline moving forward. This is this heel faction with Rolands and with Hayman and CM, Punk is going to be 1 of. The main opponents and the. Craig I mean, it was such a delightful. You know, almost like silent movie performance that was done during that night of betrayal, as the Paul Heyman character, like he’s dressed. In a suit. Right. And he comes out and you know, he’s it’s like watching a silent film in terms of his emoting so strongly with his face. And his mannerisms? Yeah. Ohh. I’m in a real dilemma. What am I going to do? And and I’ve seen a couple of fan videos of of this this performance because it’s one thing I guess seeing it with the choreography. It’s another thing when you get the immediacy of it. It’s. Speaker Hmm. Craig You know, it’s it’s so delightfully hand fisted and and clearly his, I guess chewing the scenery with that. And then he goes up like the nature of his betrayal was, what was it like was nut shots for breaking up. Marcus Not shots if you if. Craig You. Hitting them. Marcus In the nuts, if you want someone to turn, he’ll get them to punch another man. In the zones. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Craig Yeah, because there’s been a lot of. I mean, that’s what the the, the scene that he’ll turn with Cody Rhodes was kicking him in the nuts. The Bohemian betrayal of CM Punk, and who was it? Was it rains, the. Marcus Other way? Yeah. Betrayed rains and punk insider. Craig Was. Yeah, cooling behind them. And then and then nodding them from behind them. Marcus Rawlins. Craig Through their legs. It was. Marcus And it’s been a thing. For one of the most. Infamous heel turns in all of wrestling. Not no, not all of wrestling in the modern era. Rather, is or one of the most infamous in terms of the most badly hand. Old Ones 2018, I believe they had Shinsky Nakamura, who’s known as the King of strong style. One of the biggest new. Japan wrestlers. Ever. Came to WWE after an extremely storied and successful career in Japan, won the Royal Rumble, got a title and everyone went nuts. I was singing his theme song that was so happy for him. He got into a World Heavyweight Championship match against AJ Styles, who he previously had really great matches with in Japan. The match they had was very mediocre, Shinske lost and then turned heel by punching AJ Styles in the nuts and literally that was that was the nature of their feud. From then on it was that Shinsky had an obsession with trying to get AJ styles and the cajones. It’s just is this. Craig And when was. Your ohh right right? Marcus 2018-2019 Vince McMahon basically just going oh, he’s Japanese and he can’t speak great English. He’ll never make it on the mic so. I can’t. Have him as a top guy and. He’s just never shinsky Nakamura never recovered from. That it’s just. Craig That, that he’ll turn and yeah, and. Marcus It’s sad, but on the other, on the other hand, you get paid 6 figures a year to hang out. Craig In Florida and serve something feel too bad for him. So wrestle Mania 41 was more than just wrestling events. It was a global spectacle blending sports, entertainment and storytelling at an unprecedented scale. Speaker 1 OK. Craig I’ve got some YouTube shorts. We’ll play them. I’ve I’ve just grabbed some media that’s been circulating recently, so this this is from 2 weeks ago. The title is the rock ruined WWE WrestleMania 41. So here this is a fan theory. It goes for 17 seconds. Marcus Go for. Craig So we’ll we’ll play it and we’ll get your feedback. Sorry. Speaker 5 Is back at elimination chamber and and gets the big moment and he shows up at bad blood and gets the big moment with the bloodline thing. You know, he shows up at these random events, these random moments, and he basically comes whenever he feels like it and then he’s not actually committed to the schedule and he’s not able to do this full time. Speaker 6 Now. Craig All right, so so he’s complaining about rock. What was what? What was the nature of rock crew in WWE WrestleMania 41 that? This fans complaining about. Marcus He ruined it because he had set up over several appearances that date back to bad blood of last year, which is, I think, around sort of September, October, he’d been slowly building up this idea of like him and seeing it being this new dangerous alliance. He’s the main villain. He tried to corrupt Cody Rhodes. He’s got history. The whole bunch of people in the roster, everyone was expecting and and last year he was in the main event of Night 1 and he interfered in the main event of Night 2. Everyone’s expecting because he’s the main villain of WWE. Essentially, that would be this, some kind of involvement to progress the story. And he just wasn’t there. He he’s just this non entity as far as the story is concerned. Even though he he was and one of the reasons why seeing as he’ll turn initially was so well received, he says oh, there’s the intrigue of he’s working with rock. What’s what’s gonna happen in the story and then it just degrades into the scene is saying I hate I’m here now because the audience is. Craig Mean to me. And as you were saying, Trevor Scott appeared rather than the. Rock. Yeah, at the end. Marcus And what’s he doing there? No one knows. He doesn’t say anything. He just appears, tries to hurt, hit Cody and gets whacked in return. Craig And that’s it. So do you think the rock ruins WWE WrestleMania 41? Marcus I think if he was going to insert himself into the build, he should have been at WrestleMania. If he wasn’t gonna be at WrestleMania, he should not have been part of the build. It’s basically you’re giving us the first two acts of a story and not delivering the third. Craig Next clip is who should dethrone John Cena for the undisputed WWE Championship. This was from. 8 days ago. Speaker 6 That John Cena is a 17 time world champion. It kick starts a whole new exciting phase of his final WWE run. We know that he isn’t going to retire with the WWE title intact, but there’s a good chance he holds on to it for at least half of the remaining 8 months he. That’s so who should be the one to dethrone him? It depends on whether he’s still a heel or not. By the end of the year. If he continues in this direction, the logical choice is to have Cody Rhodes regain the title as it gives them a full circle moment and something to chase again. If Cena turns baby face, then the best call might be to either have Gunther dethrone him in a dream match. Or Seth freaking Rollins to get one over on his old rival one last time. Craig All right, so a classic kind of speculation of, could Sina turn baby face? Speaker The one paper. Craig Could there be another match between Cody Rhodes? Well, how did you feel about that unpacking of? Who should dethrone John Cena for the undisputed? Marcus In theory, it makes sense for senior and Cody to have a rematch, and for Cody to get his win back and get the belt back and be the top guy again. But I feel that’s really risky because. The audience were all there for Cena and they weren’t there for Cody. Craig So right, they’re just saying they were booing Cody right where they should be cheering him. Marcus Yeah, he’s a good. Speaker Guy. Marcus When a year previously, they’ve all been clamouring for him to finish his story, there’s that whole story about how. Dwayne Johnson, the rock in Real Life, had tried to oust Cody from the main event of WrestleMania 40 because he wanted it for himself and everyone took to Twitter to get hashtag. We want Cody trending, and there was this huge real life story about getting Cody back in the main event to follow the creator of the Triple H Him planning and everyone was behind him then, and then they turned on him at Wrestle Mania and the smack down before Wrestle Mania. So I’m thinking I don’t think putting Cody and Cena in a rematch is. Fairly safe if anything. They also said Gunther. Right. Gunther. Yeah. Gunther would be interesting because to have Gunther challenging for the undisputed belt would be a lot of fun. He’s based this really old school. He’s very old school in terms of his move set. So power bombs, knife edge chops, sleeper holds. That’s pretty much it. Very basic, very 19. I mean, he’s also he’s totally not Hitler. Craig Because it’s very German, right? He’s very German. Right? Austrian. So, Schwarzenegger. Marcus Australian. He’s all switch back to there. During general Ohh the ring general yeah. Craig Is that his name? The the ring. The ring, general. Yeah. Like they’re going a whole kind of wartime Prussian military. Speaker Freak. Marcus Comes on in a military great coat with opera playing. Speaker Sure. Craig It’s that problematic. Does anyone say? Yeah, this is a bit problematic. Marcus Here’s the what here is the thing. Craig It looks. Marcus Wrestling is frequently very problematic. It’s always had a very, very sketchy relationship with race. I think this is just my interpretation. I could be wrong. The guy who plays Gunther, I don’t know what his real name is. Sorry, but he is. He’s charisma is, quite frankly, off the charts and he makes it work. I mean, the dude gets by with maybe four or five moves. And everyone loves him and thinks he’s one of the best heels working today. So I think he pulls it off. I could be wrong, but I mean, they’ve had other instances of racially insensitive gimmicks like Mohammed Hassan, whose gimmick was that he was a man of Arabic descent who felt that Middle Eastern people. Were being treated unfairly following 911. And he was a heel. Craig Ohh. Marcus Yeah, that lasted about six months and I’m pretty sure he was played by an Italian American. Gosh, Ouch. There’s a pretty sketchy history of race and and wrestling, but I think I think good that makes. Speaker Wow. Craig It work. Yeah, it’s it’s tricky, isn’t it, when the wrestlers also need to again do that 4th wall moment. And say hey. You know, I went there like I was watching something was like some good old boy, like wrestlers that were performing good old boys, anti immigration kind of narratives against a Mexican wrestler. That was the storytelling was around that kind of first Trump era, you know, trying to like clamp down on illegals. Kind of narrative and thinking that this, this wrestler is an illegal immigrant and taking our jobs kind of narrative and then there, yeah, there’s a new saying. Well. This is a role. This is not my thoughts on that, though I did enjoy in the last wrestle like Pre WrestleMania we were talking about the match up. That didn’t happen on the night, right, which was against the El Grande. Marcus Guy El Grande americano. Craig Which and. That’s really political, right? This is a performance like you’ve got the Gulf of America, Gulf of Mexico being renamed Gulf of America. So how have they wrapped that up as a narrative? Because you’ve got some really exciting Mexican wrestlers in WWE. So what was that match meant to be on paper? Marcus It it ended up getting so it was meant to be El Grande Americano who? Craig Is sounds like a burger from. Marcus It really does. Or a burrito. Who is the rest of the Chad Gable wearing a luchador mask and pretending that he’s? Craig Someone else, and no one knows that, right? It’s like a secret identity. Like, who is he? I’m a real Mexican. Speaker 1 Aye. Marcus Wrestler the The, the, the the joke is that it’s so obvious that it’s Chad Gable, but people act as though it’s not. He was meant to have a match against Rey Mysterio. Who is? Not even Mexican. He’s of Mexican descent, but he’s from San Diego. He’s lived in California all of his life, but he’s considered one of the very greatest. I don’t think he he’s even a necessarily practitioner of Lucha Libre. He’s a luchador that he wears the mask. Yeah, but considered one of the absolute greatest sort of lightweight wrestlers. He was supposed to be. Speaker 5 Right. Craig Ever, right. Marcus Those two, because he’s been his Mysterio, has been on the roster for. He’s been a wrestler for about 35 years. And still moves like an absolute demon, so it was meant to be those two against each other. But Mysterio ended himself and he got replaced with another luchador and it was a good match. But the story is still. Ongoing, I mean. Craig OK, watch it. Marcus There was there because the blow off didn’t happen. I mean, Chad Gable still playing El Grande Americano. He’s still feuding with the other luchadors on the roster. Craig Moving to the next little clip, Cena, after winning WWE title. Cody’s reaction. Speaker 7 Cody didn’t said a word and walked out after losing his title, seen it in the press conference, said that he’s just here so he won’t get fined. He labelled all questions asked to him, including the Rock’s involvement as clickbait questions, and said that it’s lazy reporting, he said to tune in to raw tomorrow to see how he ruins wrestling. Becky Lynch tweeted that she’s back and she brought her daughter rude to the press conference too. Fans are criticising the night 2 main event of Mania 41 because it was nowhere close to that of wrestle Mania 40. But Cena winning the title was the best decision, fans pointed out when last year the Rock said that he will be at Wrestle Mania 41, but the reality is different now. In the post Wrestle Mania, press conference, Triple H said that China will get a solo induction when the. And is right. Dominic was receiving a. You deserve it. Chant in the post show he may turn Babyface again after 2 1/2. Years. I think he gets another title. Craig All right. Well, that was very that human YouTube short there by the human voice, very AI based. So there’s a lot to unpack there. So Cena did a post match press conference in character as a heel. Yes. Did that salvage some of the less than successful match that had that had happened or or was the the post match press conferencing is a fizzle itself. Marcus Or the scene heel turn is so strange because a lot of people are enjoying the character work that he’s doing. There’s just a disconnect. Between the initial. The altered and the his concurrent motivation and the timing of his motivation. The match I think was just bad by design because Cena in character is trying to make wrestling lame and he wants to retire and take the belt with him. He wants to take his ball and go home. It’s an it’s an unwritten rule that wrestlers should always lose their last match and they should never retire with the title. There are very few circumstances where that happens. People are loving. Your work, though, like he’s so entertaining as a bad guy, it doesn’t mean that the match wasn’t. I didn’t see any, though, Dominic Mysterio, who got the intercontinental belt, he’s Rey Mysterio, son, and he’s an example of where he was. Someone was hated. His baby face turned heel, hated as a heel. All the right reasons. And now he’s turning baby faces. Everyone loves to hate him so much they they aren’t. Ironically, love him. Craig Anything else from that? That, that little clip. What was it? It was. Marcus Ohh yeah, about how Cody didn’t say anything. Speaker 7 Cody didn’t say. Craig Yeah. Cody said it. Yeah. Speaker 7 Had a word and walked out after losing his title. Cena in. Craig The OK, so yeah. How do people unpack the post, Cody? Marcus Loss the out of the out of universe reason is that Cody Rhodes wants time off because his wife’s having a. Craig Second kid. Ohh. OK, that’s nice. Marcus So. The that’s. Craig Yeah. Marcus So he dropped the belt and Cena also wanted to beat Ric Flair’s record and have the most recognised title runs in WWE history, right, even though Ric Flair has something like 25 title runs, not all them acknowledged by WWE. I don’t know why and I feel like I don’t know. I feel like Cody. They have done some damage to his brand just the way that he’s being portrayed the this year. Because one of his complaints against Roman Reigns last year and challenging for the belt was that Roman Reigns never defended it, he defends it once every two months, whereas Cody, while chasing that was also having feuds with the Judgement Day and Shins, gained like more on TV every single week. Right? And Cody’s basically. But like in terms of the way. That he’s being booked. Obviously you know Cody Runnels, who plays Cody Rhodes, doesn’t write the story himself, but the way that he’s being portrayed is not helping any potential fan backlash and. Speaker 5 I don’t know I. Marcus Don’t know it’s going when he comes back. Hopefully he comes back to heroes. Welcome but. It’s it’s. It’s an interesting the the the ultimate problem with wrestling is that heroes and villains, you know, baby faces and heels are not defined by what they do. They’re defined by how the crowd responds. Craig To them. Yeah. Yeah. That the idea of heat, right? Generating audience excitement or. Speaker Yeah. Craig We’re kind of back and forth. Marcus Yeah, if people cheer for you and you’re a heel, well, turn babyface because they like you. Doesn’t matter if you never do anything nice as long as you say that you’re a baby face, they’ll like. And if you’re a face and you get booed, just turn heel and become evil and they’ll be for the right reasons. Craig So the last point that this clip was making, what is it, Dominic? They’re saying that. Marcus Daddy, Dom. Speaker 7 Dominic was receiving a you deserve it. Chant in the post show he may turn Babyface again after 2 1/2 years. Marcus I think he gets another title. Craig What’s it? What’s it? You deserve it. First chat. Speaker Run. Marcus Ohh basically, if a wrestler who hasn’t had a title for a while gets a title and it’s well earned. Like if they’ve been. One of the things that’s really praised by wrestling fans is restless, who wrestle every week, who show up, and they put on good matches on a consistent basis. That’s what people like. That’s why Cody was so popular last year, cause that’s what he was doing and Dominic Mysterio. Craig Who’s a heel? And it looks like a complete. Marcus Who is this you? Craig And like weaselly little character, he’s a great performance of kind of like. Marcus Yes. Yeah. Craig You know, I I’d see this guy at. Coles or Woollies without shoes. Yeah, drinking the milk straight from the. Marcus Yeah. Carton absolutely, always chewing gum. He’s like a core tenet of his character is his obsession with chicken tendies. I don’t know why either. Craig It’s like deep fried or something or crumbed chicken things. Marcus Crumbed chicken, usually frozen and put either in the deep fryer or in the oven. He hasn’t. He literally. I saw one into you with him where he just like they were just two solid minutes just talking about chicken tendies. It’s just an inherent part of his character. I don’t know why. Yeah, but because he puts on good matches because he’s so funny, everyone is able to see past the character he’s playing to the fact that the performer is very talented and the performer is very entertaining. And The thing is that. Obviously, wrestling is scripted, but the belts ideally shouldn’t go arbitrarily to whoever created thinks should have them. The belt should go to the people who are doing the best work, getting the best responses, and because once you’ve got a belt, all our eyes are on you and you are going to be perceived as the person who’s drawing. Craig Right. Marcus The money. So even though even though it’s the belts are not competitive in athletic sense, they are competitive in, I suppose like a marketing and merchandising and a prestige sense. So they were chanting, you deserve it and because he’s done such great work and he’s barely wrestled on premium live event, I think he’s been in a couple of tag matches and he was in a shark cage. For women’s world title defence last year, but I don’t remember him having a single singles match in the 18 months that I’ve been watching. So for him to come out and have this like incredible. On on premium Live event, he’s definitely had singles matches on RAW that always be very entertaining. So for him to come out and, you know, win this variant, attaining fatal Four way match the and the audience like this guy is a really performer. He’s put on a good show. We are consider US sports entertained and that’s why I’m going. You deserve it. You deserve it. Craig I often hear that charm, as I mentioned in the studio here. Yeah. OK. So. Any other main points from Russell Mania, we’ve. Missed. Marcus Ohh we we haven’t mentioned Randy Orton’s mystery opponent. Craig Yeah. What happened there that. Marcus OK, so they’d spent 18 months building up a rivalry between not 18 months more like 6 months, building up a rivalry between Kevin Owens and Randy Orton 2. Of the very. Two of the most popular performers for very different reasons, Kevin Owens is seen as one of the most safe workers. One of the most talented workers, and like everyone loves to build him as a heel. But he puts on the best matches, had a he had a a, a ladder match with Cody earlier in the year that was ridiculously good and I like you look at it, you think how these guys not paralyse. Last and Randy Orton’s on the roster for well over 20 years, one of the top baby faces, everyone loves him. They’re they’ve been building up because Randy, Randy needs some time off, so they wrote him out with inverted commas with Kevin Owens doing a pile package pile driver on him and quote unquote, breaking his neck at Crown Jewel last year. Translation. They just want. He just wanted some time off. But a couple of weeks before WrestleMania, Kevin Owens and this is actually really sad. Kevin Owens announced on Smackdown that he needed neck surgery and he was not going to be resting for the foreseeable future. But because you know it’s wrestling, it’s the art of deception. Yeah, people. Weren’t sure if it was real or if it was part of the storyline, so he got a mixture of cheers and booze as he was leaving. Craig Ohh no. Marcus And then he went on. Chris Van Vleet’s YouTube channel and said, Oh yeah, this is real. I actually have to have neck surgery. Ohh. But man, like, just for such a for such a respected worker for him to like get that response because people weren’t sure if it was. Speaker Oh man. The thing is. Marcus Drill or not, so that threw out the planning for Wharton’s match at Mania because that because that’s a blow off. That was a very long time in the making, but what they did was there’s a wrestler for total nonstop action, Joe Hendry, whose basic gimmick is what if Freddie Mercury, but you revision. Craig Really. Yeah. Wow. Yep. Marcus And essentially he got really popular. Last year he’s wrestling for 10 or 15 years. He’s got a he’s got a masters in business and marketing, and he’s also an ex professional musician. So he wrote his own theme song into the music video to it. And he has all these little bits he has where he will, like, turn around and smile at the camera. And it’s just so ridiculously cheesy that you can. Not help but enjoy it. And so they go. Who’s the? Who’s the mystery opponent going to be? And Horton’s in the middle of the ring. He’s looking at the entranceway and you see the 2 doors open and it’s all pitch black. And then you hear the first night lines, the things are going see his name and he appears and everyone absolutely lost it. And does turn and smile and the lights come up. And Joe Henry’s there. Oh, my gosh, cause TNA. For many years, we’ve seen as a very solid alternative to WWE. They never got anywhere close to their numbers. But basically, if you didn’t like the product that WD was putting on, just TuneIn and watch TNA instead. So in the mid to late 2000s they were on this absolute roll and then some bad stuff happened and then they sort of recovered from it a little bit. Basically, Joe Hendry has been the shining point. He’s the current. Main champion and he’s been the main attraction over the last year. He was at the Royal Rumble earlier this year because WWE and TNA doing a lot of collaborations, right. And so everyone just lost it. Randy Orton is doing all these hilarious like not bad, like smiling. Nodding, and then you’re hoping for a really good match. It’s just a 3 minute squash match where Joe Hendry gets all of his bits in but and gets his crowd responses, but he’s just there to get squashed by Randy Orton. Oh gosh. And but it climaxes with Orton trying Joe Hendricks poses for the audience into the camera. And it’s it’s a very good comedy bit, but as an actual and it’s a very good mania moment because of that shock factor as an actual match though, like if they’ve been given 10 minutes to. Work with it would have, but, but ultimately Triple H doesn’t want to make the champion of another. Company look good. Right. Although people, I actually watched an interview with Henry not long after and the guy and the interview was like, do you feel like you were wasted at Mania and Joe Andrew said, look, I got to wrestle Randy Orton in his 20th WrestleMania at Wrestle Mania, so you know, no, I have no complaints. I can only go up from here. I’ve I’ve got a I’ve got a trading card that a Topps trading card that’s out. That’s already sold out. That’s gonna be worth a lot. Very. Soon, you know. Craig Trading cards, that’s. So what do you think, Taylor? You hyped, is this hyping you into wrestling? Taylor Yeah. Craig Where’s your? What’s your wrestling status at the? Taylor Moment I I haven’t. I haven’t watched the WrestleMania from last year or this year actually. Craig You you turn your bucket list of what was discussed is anything you’re particularly excited to hear to see to. Taylor Yeah. OK. Craig Watch the nutjobs, the smashing, the testicles. Marcus All about the nut shots. Taylor I still actually do want to watch the ones from last year and this year it’s just cause they’re not free on YouTube. That I haven’t watched, yes. What is the status? Marcus On and they do upload individual matches to YouTube and they they and. This thing where they uploaded the 50, quote unquote greatest Romanian matches. So a lot of them have been uploaded on YouTube before because there was blood in them, but they’ve all been up like 50 of them have been uploaded. Some of them might be uploaded, they will never upload it. Chris Benoit match because he murdered his wife and child and then committed suicide. Taylor Yeah, yeah. Speaker Ohh. Oh. Marcus So even though he had an incredible career, no. 1. ‘S No one’s a big pardon me. Gonna wanna talk about him in WWE ever again. Yeah, most of the matches for and they even they uploaded individual rumbles as well, a whole bunch of royal rumbles are up there, whole bunch of elimination share matches are up there. So the only the only I guess they don’t show you the height packages, but I think the hype packages their own videos anyway. So you can certainly watch most of a WrestleMania card on YouTube. If you’re willing to tolerate the ads. Craig Yeah. Well, we’re pretty much at time wrapping this up. What’s what’s around the corner? What’s next on your excited wrestling calendar? Is there anything locally as well in in Australia that like? Marcus Oh, there are a bunch of smaller wrestling promotions in Australia, this Hazy Championship wrestling in Launceston. Does Adelaide Championship wrestling in I I don’t know what, what, what city that’s in, but there are a whole bunch of different wrestling promotions around Australia it’s like. Craig Cause Australia does have some global representation in wrestling. Marcus Yes. I mean, we’ve got. Grayson Waller and Maria Ripley, who I’ve made just us. But yeah, no, they’re I and they they often have a ring set up. I’ve been to a bunch of pop culture conventions and anime conventions that have had wrestling matches on. They’re always good fun to. Craig Right. Watch live. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So often if you go to a even. Just a popular culture convention that might have. You know Stormtroopers and anime cosplay often. You might also see a wrestling ring setup with people in the costumes wrestling. Marcus And there’s there’s always a macho man cosplayer. There is always a macho man cosplayer. Craig That’s and and and that’s that’s that 80s macho man. Costume. Marcus With the with the, the the cowboy hat, his sunglasses with the plastic strips over them, the Teslas, the beard, the. Craig Performance right? Pink and yellow. How about hats? Speaker 6 Ohh yeah, digger. Craig Just before we, I mean if if you could cosplay as any cosplayer, if you could cosplay as any rest. Well, from history do you have? Would you, would you think, geez, if I could, if I could pull that off, I would cosplay that wrestler in the. Marcus Heartbeat me personally, I would probably go as I’d go as crow sting. Craig Is that like the comic? Marcus Book crew. Yeah, so. Craig Right. That kind of Gothic makeup. Marcus Yes, Sting started out in the 1980s as a surfer who wore bright colours and had face pain and a blonde flat top. And then in 1996, Scott Hall, who was a huge movie I’ve. That, you know, reasons getting darker, you’re going to be the main hero of this really dark. Storyline you should. You should become the crow. And so he literally had the crow make up for the last 25 years of 25 years of his. Craig Career. Wow. Yeah. Taylor, do you have any, you know, chunk out dog? Taylor No. Craig Actually, he’s definitely not the because that’s African American. Marcus Wrestler I can see Taylor doing Owen Hart. Taylor OK, OK. Yeah. Craig I reckon I could pull off. Someone. Yeah, maybe maybe the the. What’s his name? The manager of CM Punk. Marcus Ohh, Paul Heyman, Paul Heyman. You do that or you could do a Gomez Adams looking. Do Paul Barrow. Who was the undertakers manager? Craig I can see Paul Heyman. Be deep cup. Yeah, I get fans. All right. Well, we’re at. Time. Thanks for listening to me, Mother ship this week.