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Craig Norris

Jul 291 min read

AI Voices and Pop Culture News

Episode 80 - With host Craig Norris and Taylor Lidstone.

First Broadcast on Edge Radio, 5th July 2024.

In this episode, we dive into the latest trend of AI-generated voices, including Judy Garland and James Dean. Morgan Freeman’s reaction to the unauthorized use of AI to imitate his voice, and we also cover Instagram’s decision to change its ‘Made with AI’ label to ‘AI info’ following photographers’ complaints. We talk about a British man who was sentenced to four months in jail for carrying a Legend of Zelda sword in public as a fidget toy. We also explore the naming of a newly discovered eyeless spider after a creature from Monster Hunter. Finally, we highlight the rising popularity of K-pop group Seventeen, who are making history in the UK and rivaling Taylor Swift. Tune in for these stories and more!

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TRANSCRIPT

This is an AI-generated transcript of the audio and it may contain errors. We may update or correct this transcript in the future. Please contact us if you have any questions about the information in this transcript. The audio is the official record of this episode.

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Yes, indeed. Welcome officially to media mothership broadcasting out of Edge Radio Studios in Apollonia, Hobart. TAS on media. Must we explore how media can shape our understanding of the world around us? I'm your host, Doctor Craig, and we're streaming over. A couple of platforms including EDS radio.org Dot AU as well as YouTube and Twitch. If you want to jump on those streaming platforms, you can find us by just searching media mothership as well as on the DAB. You can message us on the chat at YouTube and Twitch or SMS SMS US directly into the studio on 0488811707. Today's topic is looking at some interesting aspects. Of AI and some. You know, fun ways in which pop culture has LED people to be arrested as well as giving them good ideas for names of things. Would you believe all this and more on media mothership? OK, let's have a look at this first unusual article headlined. You can now get AI, Judy Garland or James Dean to read you the news. This is a piece from Engadget talking about how a company called 11 Labs has made a deal with the estates of famous deceased for their new. Reader app. So the article goes on to talk about how this startup. Has created this app which will narrate. Ebooks and PDFs for you in the voice of a dead celebrity in this at this point they've been able to get a couple of states signed up to it. So it'll be interesting to see how it goes. Judy Garland. Being one of them, let's listen to how they try to explain this, and then we'll look at some of the implications that this might lead to.

11 Labs is proud to introduce the iconic voice collection, choose from our exclusive selection of famous AI voices, including the illustrious Judy Garland, able to read your favourite stories, publications and uploads in the most authentic way possible, including the Wizard of Oz.

In that moment, Dorothy saw lying on the table. The silver shoes that had belonged to the Witch of the east.

So download the 11 labs reader app today. Your favourite stories with your favourite iconic voices.

So it'll be interesting to see how the popularity of these voices will relate to people wanting to hear various texts, read back to them. Obviously it's interesting that the the legal headaches of this clearly have been. Circumvented by getting the estates of these deceased actors to sign off, and I notice while they only highlight Judy Garland there in the YouTube video, they've got Burt Reynolds, James Dean, Laurence Olivier as other names there. So. You know, it would be fascinating to see how this influence and cultural significance of these celebrities will get appropriated into hearing them read back a book and then an unusual. Text. Maybe science communication. Maybe it could be used to make a science textbook, or really boring textbook. More exciting, yeah. Unusual, unusual. So be fascinating to see what voices could be created from that. A contrast to this story can be seen, though, in a piece IGN recently posted up. Titled Morgan Freeman thanks fans for highlighting unauthorised use of AI to imitate his voice. These are cases where someones been posing or or using AI to replicate the voice. We did an example of that a few weeks ago on media mothership where we talked about the Boulders Gate 3 mod which replaces the narration there with David Attenborough. Narration giving it that weird documentary vibe to a fantasy role playing game like Boulder Skate 3. This one is of course talking about here's the case where. It's fake where it's created without the permission and often used, you know, maybe playfully or maybe maliciously. Certainly in the past there's been cases such as the infamous case of Tom Hanks's voice being used. Just to as part of an online ad for a dental plan, right. So Tom Hanks's voice was used. Without his permission to basically spook a a dental plan, Robin Williams daughter has also condemned the disturbing use of AI to create her late father's voice. And there's many others, so you know, again, for Wild West, here are two interesting contrasting stories. One where. And the state has secured. Sorry, AI company has secured the states. Of the dead actors to give their voice permission for it, another one where people are just grabbing it so it does show you this technology can be used, you know, without legal or. Means as well. Right. When we're talking about the law, the next interesting story. Just from today. Was. British man carrying Legend of Zelda Sword in public as a fidget toy sentenced to four months gaol. So this is being posted on ABC News. And there's a picture here of a $0.20. Yeah, kind of prop sword that. Was. Spotted by people from the public and then police. Yeah, police stopped him after CCTV footage showed. Barry, the guy carrying something suspicious. Officers approached. Bray, as as they saw he was carrying a blade and when he was arrested. Pre claimed the sword, which is just an imitation of the master sword from Legend of Zelda. Popular Nintendo game he was using it as a as a kind of fidget device, something he could use to keep his hands busy. So of course, fidget toys were incredibly popular a few years back. Those were made of the spinners. And you know, they're they're used to help people who are looking for a way of concentrating or relieving some nervous energy. And sadly, it looks in this case Bray attempted to use that as a rationalisation for carrying this 20 centimetre long prop and and look, if you look at it, it's it's, you know, it's a it's a metal. Coating to it. So. So it's not a a kind of clearly. This. Yeah toy type object. So you know, Bray tried to explain though that that he wouldn't use it as a weapon, but nevertheless the police have said they have a 0 tolerance of bleated articles in public. This is in Warwickshire and he fell afoul of this. So yeah, he was then given this 154 LB. Charge as well as four months gaol. So let's hear a little bit about what this master sword is from Doctor Willy. Who is part one of the history of the master sword?

The master sword. It's a legendary blade in the Zelda series, and it's seen in multiple games. But what is the story and history behind this blade? Who made it, and what happened to it in the end? It all started after sealing away demise the goddess highly. I created 5 an intelligent humanoid spirit who resided in the sword and gave it the purpose of assisting her chosen hero throughout his journey. Eventually, in order to open the gate of time at the sealed Grounds, Impala explains the length that he must seek out the three sacred. Flames and purified the sword in their heat, each time linked, bathes the goddess.

Yeah. So that's. That's pretty exciting. I don't know if that helps explain the master sword any further, but clearly it's a significant prop. It's interesting the cultural. Showing here in this story of the guy arrested for walking around with a 20 centimetre. Master of Sword from Legend of Zelda prop the the popularity of video games like Legend of Zelda and how I guess if you know that it's from a video game like Legend of Zelda. If the public perception of walking around with a replica or collectible of the Legend of Zelda. Master Sword would be helpful. You know, maybe if one of the police officers was a huge Legend of Zelda fan, I doubt it though. I mean, if you have a look at the sword, it's looks like someone who who didn't. If they didn't know it was Legend of Zelda video games or would just treat it as a real sword, potentially. Anyone could even if you knew it, was that because it does look quite metallic and. Printed. So this is that legal interpretation? You know that the incident does reveal the legal systems. I guess understanding of, even though it's a pop culture artefact, right. And they're plenty of people that would. Maybe in a convention, going to cosplay dressed up as a favourite character, but even those convention spaces are quite rigorous in terms of ensuring that any swords or guns are abide by strict protocols. In fact, I don't even know if you could bring. A sword in you know if. If it looks vaguely realistic. Because yeah, that that could this be used as a potential weapon? So surely of? Course you know. It's interesting, you know, could it could could the Legend of Zelda sword be perceived differently across different cultures? Yeah, maybe. If you're at a convention and you had that sword, people might. Not call the police. Depends on the sort. In this case you know again, if you're looking still at a sword that might have metal plating or you know a metallic spray paint over it. You know if it. Looks close to a. Real thing. Who knows if it's not or not? And of course, you know here, it's interesting. This kind of neurodiversity point that he was saying it's it's a fidget toy. So. Are there implications in terms of the the need for those that are neurodivergent to have fidget toys, which they feel are going to be meaningful to them and helpful to them? And I guess how to also unpack those choices in terms of saying, well, of course to you that might look fine. You wouldn't use it as a weapon, but for someone in the public that doesn't know it's the master sword from Legend of Zelda and you're using it as a fidget toy. They would, they feel threatened. And again, as the police said here 0. 0 tolerance. So this poor guy, possibly poor guy, got pushed into. Yeah, quite a fine and four months gaol. Yeah. Right. OK. So Next up, let's have a look at the intriguing issue of let's go into well, yeah, I guess we've had.

People using pop culture in a way which makes people in the public feel afraid. Here's an example of people using pop culture, which hopefully maybe helps people understand something better. This is from ign.com . It's a story talking headlined scientists name, newly discovered eyeless spider. After blind flying, Wyvern from Monster Hunter, this is from the video game series Monster Hunter. Turns out that a newly discovered spider from China has been named the. Otto acilia. Kesu after Kesu the flying wavering from the video game Monster Hunter. Spiders and wyverns don't really have anything in common, but it is intriguing that this popular culture video game series was choose chosen to to name this newly discovered spider. And yeah. I guess Kesu, which looks fairly normal, wavering from the 2000. Or Monster Hunter series has maybe some scary links to the spider that's there. It's worth looking at the the whole image. There are plenty of other examples of scientists doing the same the. Sarona Butterfly was named after the Lord of the Rings. Villain Soron I see soron. Ah, the Vada neito it. Soron soron. Ah, butterfly venomous. Tom Hardy was somewhat bizarrely named after Tom Hardy's Venom. Films. And the touchy men, Otis Harrison Fordy snake was of course named after the Indiana Jones actor. It's intriguing. Again, this idea of how media influence is occurring here in terms of naming new species after pop culture references could reflect the influence of media on scientific practises. I wonder how many? People that are doing scientific practises are huge fans or nerds, or geeks of particular pop culture and are more than happy to dig into that well of their pop culture knowledge to help them name the real world around us. Interesting that of course the choice of names. Like the venomous Tom Hardy for that snake suggests about. The cultural significance. Of video games and movies and contemporary societies. Yeah, because I guess if you think about the naming of dinosaurs back in the. Late 1900s, it was, you know, you kind of Greek words, Tyrannosaurus Rex, so forth. This idea of classics to give that sense of wonder and awe to these huge fossilised dinosaur remains. Does it diminish it somewhat that we're choosing pop culture names and actor names for discoveries that we're making? Or does it make it more relatable? Does it give them a kind of interest? And media cut through, they wouldn't otherwise have. I mean, would IGN be reporting on another classic Greek term used to name this spider? I don't think so, right? I mean, the reason that maybe they chose this Monster Hunter name was to get a bit of media coverage. Science communication, right? So how might people use popular culture references in science to impact this public engagement with science? Right. I mean. Maybe to bring more dramatic. Issues facing us that science needs to communicate with climate change and so forth. Could we use some scientific nomenclature that uses pop culture terms? And yeah, could there be a bit of a cross disciplinary impact? You know how these naming conventions illustrate this maybe wonderful intersection of science. And media studies or fan culture, or Hollywood into science. It's intriguing. The interplay between science media.

Who knows? Who knows? It is, uh, quite funny. The venomous Tom Hardy in particular. Alright, let's change gears a little bit. I mean, we started the media mothership talking a little bit about how. There were concerns about AI voices, Morgan Freeman thanking his fans. So again, in that case, fans being the custodians of Morgan Freeman's. Ownership of his voice and alerting him when fans find people using Morgan Freeman's voice. So then Morgan Freeman can take legal action. Here we have an interesting issue which has been causing headaches for a number of photographers on Instagram. This has been reported on from the Verge, as well as many other. News platforms, The Verge points, has headlined at Instagrams made with AI label swapped out for AI info after photographers complaints. There's a story about how AI have been labelling images posted up to Instagram where? A some form of bots or processing has has identified the image, that's. Uploaded as based on AI, they feel so there's been this made with AI thing that's caused people to be really ****** *** when in fact they uploaded photos which weren't made with AI. Of course, some of these have been quite clearly wrong. There's the case of former White House photographer Pete Souza, who pointed out the tag. Was linked to a photo he uploaded, which was taken over 40 years ago of a basketball game. Right. So we you could only guess that maybe this was caused by the fact he used a dobies cropping tool and flattening images that may have triggered this this headache so as. They've done this, they've now said, OK, well, maybe there's some way of of fixing it. Who knows? Who knows? It's it's interesting. In this case. I guess the the thing with the AI voice. The I swapping is, you know, the impact that this shows. I mean, if I was to create something and suddenly there's a label underneath it saying made with AI. And I hadn't made up with AI, the public perception of it might be changed. Well, to help us resolve this. Issue special guests has arrived in the studio to help us further understand how Instagrams made with AI label swapping out to AI Info might impact creative talent. It's wonderful to have Lord Taylor. Then I know that Taylor lidstone. Yep. Hey himself is is a creator. I've got the article up on there. I mean, it's not the the.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

K Pop One, we'll get a grant to that in a second. So there was an interesting little piece about the use of AI later. I don't know if you've seen it. The keep keep flicking across. Not that one. Yes, this one. Yeah. So Instagram.

Have you have you heard of this? Where Instagram? Was labelling photos that people were uploading as made with a. And then a number of photographers was saying, hey, this photo was like 50 years ago of a basketball match is not a UI. So they've changed it to AI info. It's interesting because I I came across it for a promotional poster and people were. Really, policing these days is this image AI or not right? There seems to be this big debate around being able to forensically look at stuff on Instagram or other space, particularly when it's produced by big company. And then someone saying, oh, this is definitely a I this is something which is just fake. Look at the number of look at the hand, right. The hand thing is no longer as big of. A tell as. It used to, but the what the the conversation on the Internet seems to drive towards is someone proving or saying ohh no. If you look at the way that. Be. Angle is and that way that expression is. It's clearly AI. From which there's then a backlash, right? Like it seems like the only pathway that's headed towards is this kind of, you know, like one of those Frankenstein movies where you have the peasants rioting with their torches. So witch hunts to then. You know, so it is it is this thing that I was saying. You know, once, once this automated process was levelling your photo photo as AI. It meant you were then going to be attacked.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

So there's this question of, of course, metadata interpretation. You know the challenges which Instagram and other places have. And then on the other hand, the challenges of of of tools like Adobe Photoshop. Like once you start using Adobe Photoshop on a photo, if you've got Instagram and other platforms. Policing or labelling AI when they feel they've detected it. What responsibility does Adobe Photoshop have to let you know? Hey, you know, you're now at 30% AI mutated or AI altered this? I mean, it's almost like, you know, alternative assignment submission in terms of, like, how what percentage does this appear to be plagiarism?

You know, so it's fascinating to me in terms of the, the, What this will unleash around metadata interpret.

Nation. And then you know, authenticity, content, authenticity, right. So. I guess what this is trying to do is is give artists that are genuinely creating content. This stamp of yes, you're authentically human and this is an authentically human created experience you're enjoying. From from others which are which are. Kind of going to be AI based or or.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

I think that gets me is how it says the photographer. Uploaded a photo 40 years ago and speculated that using the cropping tool and flattening images might have triggered it. Why is that information allowed within the image anyway? Because those are very low level sort of manual based things.

Well, he was guessing, I guess there. So he said, yeah. There was a photo that he put up at the basketball game. They got flagged as made with AI. He couldn't figure out why they've been flagged by the AI. And yeah, speculate that maybe. All he did to. It was retouch it with. Adobe, but maybe that was enough somehow. For it to see the image as no longer the quality that would be a 40 year old photo quality, but instead yeah look, I think that's the question though, right? As as as a creator, what role does AI now have in your workflow? If you've got these implications right? I mean I I think that AI has.

Pretty much being integrated into a lot of creative workflows, even at a minimal level, right? I mean, this seems to be a very minimal level. That guy was saying that you know, yes, there was some AI and you think about Adobe Word. I mean all these packages now come with little API bundled within.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

So it certainly.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

But flattening the image and cropping it is not AI, it's there's no intelligence to that, cause it's doing exactly what you're telling it to do when it's when it's got like generative fill. That's definitely AI, because it's taking parts of the image and trying to make something that's close to it, but.

Doesn't seem enough yet. Yeah. So again, it's one of these false positives.

Right, so if you're. Dealing with platforms which are broken. In terms of their ability to identify AI. You know, maybe maybe it's like 9 times out of 10. It's fine with the automated process Instagram you're using, but that one out of 10 time, it's wrong. This has real dramatic impact and will they change that or not? And will they have changed in terms of saying it's AI Info which is a little vague? But still it. It time is it's interesting that tarnishing, I guess of an image. With that AI link now. That there was a period where everyone was. Getting into it, it felt. Like, yeah, and now there's a kind of a huge backlash against it, where having AI linked to your creative content is actually going to potentially trigger people to boycott, like the case of the. Was that horror film? The interview, the devil or Night Light night? Late night with the devil. I think it is the possession. 1 Australian film Horror that came out. Six months ago or so, and one of the background images was AI generated and this was the kind of indie film that had mainstream distribution. But nevertheless, you know, small creative talent and, you know, small little background image was generated. But once it got unleashed on the Internet, when people discovered it.

It led to this backlash, which I think was completely unfounded in terms of it meant people didn't get to see this great bit of AI work. The other thing that I've noticed, talking of our own automated systems, the 0488811707 SMS feed, it has just collapsed in the studio, it seems to.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Some form of you know, I mean ultimately I guess that's a good example of why the old fashioned way still is important, right? But yes, you might have supporting AI aspects in your creative workflow. But you know it can. It can crash, it can crash.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

I'm going to try and send a.

Message. Ohh. Great. We'll have a message come through.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah. No, no, no.

Hey, you a Legend of Zelda?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Fan. Hey. Yeah, really. OK, we.

I'll I'll quickly get your view of this story. So if you go back to your web page, I talked about it already, but ABC was reporting that a British man carrying a Legend of Zelda sword in public has been arrested.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Was arrested given like £100 fine. And four months in gaol, he said it. Was a fidget toy I was talking about, you know. Are there cultures or communities where that wouldn't be a problem? So I'm thinking of fans.

But you have a.

Look at that. It's 20 centimetres long it. I mean, it's metal like it's it's got like a metal. And even if it's plastic, it's spray painted metal. So it looks like it's so hot, right? It looks like a little dagger. I mean, it's 20 centimetres a night.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah. So so it's so it's like a little little openness sort of thing.

Yeah. Really. But The thing is, yeah, he was walking in public. He got picked up on CCTV. And he was busted, and the the police, just like he said. Oh, it's a fidget toy. I'm using it to to relax. He said it doesn't matter. Looks to me like I saw a knife and 0 tolerance. So you're copying the fine. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I was trying to think maybe if the fair, if the police Sergeant was like a a legend of.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Zelda fan. It's funny because, like, because it says this, the Sergeant Spellman of Warwickshire Patrol Investigations Unit said police had zero tolerance to bladed articles in public. But they do because of the seat community.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Right. The males are obligated to carry a small dagger around which they can use in terms of protecting other people's lives. But that's a religious item, which they're allowed to.

Right. Even the Marxist. Well, we'll reach out. I mean, if you're a police officer in Warwickshire. It's listening to us on our feed. If it works, I don't know if it does.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Well, first of all, having a little dagger as a fidget spinner toy is. Ridiculous. So I can I can understand why they have gone against him. Like you've you've been lying to us basically.

Yeah, well. Mean. Well, look, I mean, there's plenty of kind of devices for fidgets. So I mean.

But what's what's the what?

If it was just.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Could you? What can you fidget? With that? Oh, it's not. One of the spinners? Yeah. Put the little put. The little bagger back in its scabbard and take it out. That's.

Mixture, the texture or some some fidget spinners are just texture like the poppet things that's just texture based, so I'm not going to discount the fact that that might have therapeutic value. Rubbish mate, but I'm going to say clearly.

You know, look, if you get. You know, even the home base for this material, like a fan convention. They're so strict about swords and guns, right? That that it is really. You know that that.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Hmm. How many times have you been turned away at the door?

Wouldn't even. I just don't bring them anymore. They wouldn't. I mean, I didn't think you'd get into a convention if, with with a, with a metallic looking sort, you know, they're they're so strict.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Hmm. So yeah, the thing that gets me is the related story. British man stole 200,000 Cadbury cream eggs and will spend more than a year. In gaol, why would you steal crab Cadbury cream eggs? They used to be so good, but now they're rubbish.

Well, maybe these are the good ones, right? Like he was hoarding them.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

OK. Well then I can. I can understand why.

All right. Well, we've got 20 minutes left. Let's jump to the K pop story. Because while you're here, I'd like to get your views on this. Of course. So are you aware of this story? So this is on ABC News key pop Group 17 is rivalling with Taylor Swift and making history in the UK. Here's why they're so popular. Do you know? 17 yes, of. Course. God Dang. That's why you're here. Alright. Well, let's without hopefully getting into a yeah, my YouTube stream collapsing. Let's like I could probably do 5 seconds.

Yes, that's then.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

No, you're done now.

All right. So the article starts and I want to do is go through the article and ask you as a huge Uber fan and the fact that you do K pop unlimited from 5:00 to 6:00. If this makes you right. So it starts with who's the most popular music act right now in the world? Right. And it says most people probably see Taylor Swift.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

But the article argues that by at least one metric, it's actually a confusingly named Korean pop band Who You might never heard of. Would you say that would be correct to an Australian reader that that they're a confusingly.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Named 17. What's that? Oh, my God.

Are they all 17 would be my.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Assumption. Well, if you've got flipping in One Direction, you can have seven days.

Have they been? Heard of do you think a Western? Or a WA board.

Public Western public would have.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

I I can think of probably four or five. My my acts that are more well.

Known than them, Sai. Yeah, Sai and Sai and Sai.

Excellent. And so 17 are a 13 member group, so they're not a 17 member group. So so begins the confusion 17 and they're allegedly the biggest thing in Kpop genre right now. Are they the biggest thing in the KPOP genre?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Right now I don't know. I don't.

You're not tapped into right now.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Not tapped in. I just listened to my sorry.

All right. They didn't have. They didn't have the biggest selling album in the world last year off the mill. Smell FML. Yeah, according.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Probably knowing capable, it would be fun. My life or something. Like that, yeah.

So it defines, so it starts with subheading. What is kpop? So they say Kpop range of music styles, musical styles and genres, and it's characterised by highly trained and polished artists and they're Immaculate. Synchronised answer routines is that effective definition?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah. First became popular in 1990s with its US influenced acts like Co Taji and the boys.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Not, and the boys.

Ridden and boys, that's even.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And. Worse, so Taiji and boys.

Even worse. They got Psy with Gangnam Style, of course, which?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Gangnam Style, Gangnam Style.

According to Sarah Keith, senior lecturer in media music, Macquarie, Uni K Pop is much more than just the style of colourful and upbeat music. She says. K Pop describes the way of creating music and artists being identified with talent, spotting, training and packaging. The group and marketing. Right. So who's 17?

So they came together in 2012. Were you aware of that 20? 12.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

I don't know. I don't know.

Like you've been things. OK. But but been around?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Korean talent agency record label Pledis Yeah. Are they?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Good. They're an entertainment company.

So the shows 2 hour episodes, which primarily featured members. What is this talking about? What are the two hour episodes? 17 TV? Is that like the weather in like? I could TuneIn to 8.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

So it says they were first brought together by the talent agency for a live streaming show 17. TV and it had two hour episodes of live shows.

Was this like a recruitment 1 where people dropped out and they were voting?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

No, no, it's as this is practising their singing and dancing in their studio. So sort of like getting ready to date, Sue sort of thing.

Right. Inconceivable to a Western viewer, I mean to Australian viewer I guess. Well, we've got Australian idol. Would be the closest.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

All right. So OK. While the group initially had 17 members, OK, that makes sense. Over the course of the television show, members came and went. So then they ended up with thirteen groups divided into 3 sub units. So subunits is something I think. You've. Yeah, right. So you've got 3 sub units here, hip hop rappers, vocals, singers and performers. Dancers. Yeah. So you've got 30 members in total in that like four would be hip hop. Rappers 4 would be vocal singers. And.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And so they'd release their own sort of songs or something like that. So the hip hop ones would have a rap song that they're rapping to. The vocal ones would have a very slow ballad song that they're singing along to in the performance. One might even might not even have much of a singing role in their songs that they do because they perform. It's. Primarily a performance one.

So they say that unlike most manufactured KPOP outfits, the members of 17 right and produce much of their own music. That's pretty rare.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

The first five track EP17. Right. Is that good? So 17 karat.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Know. Alright. Why do they have so many Members? OK, so even 13 people in a band might seem like a lot, but that's not unusual. K pop genre. To me it seems like a lot is 13 a lot.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Pop. Not really. I mean, I mean, I guess it's on the higher end of it, but 11 is probably generally. Probably 7 to 11 is how much you would usually have and then going down to maybe 5.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

All three, if you're lucky, and then going up to this one.

Because they said that with 13 people, OK, it seems like a lot, but the article explains that many of these groups like 17 have subunits that allow the Members to have their turn in the spotlight and give the management company the opportunity to play with group dynamics. So what does that mean? It means that one song. I only have five people in it like. All the people.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Where where are you?

Reading there, it's after the subheading. Why do they have so many Members? So keep scrolling down. Yeah, yeah.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Many of these groups, like 17, have subunits.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, that's what I was talking about. They've got they've got their.

Yeah. So in kapok. Own different songs and do they all have to come? Like generally I mean beyond. 17 with 13 members. The subunits do. They do all 30 members always have to be there on stage or in the video clip, or sometimes it's just 4?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Well, I'm. I'm thinking of I as one and and the the live show that I watched of theirs and.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

No. Just the vocals would come on and do their vocals song.

And they would have a spotlight on them.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah. And just the rappers would then come up and do their rap song to give everyone their own turn in the spotlight with their particular skill set.

Right. All right. Yeah. So and this was during COVID, right that you watched that. Yeah. So they say this. So the next subheading wire 17. So popular, they say during COVID. I was searching Spotify and getting ads with sounds that I liked and I would Shazam it and it was K pop. Who's that? That's. I'm sorry. That's a. Fan.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

That's important.

But yeah, I guess, yeah, they had. They've got a little fads actually. It's next one I'm more interested in. Why do K pop bands do so well in album sales? So 17 FML sold 6.04.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Phone cards man photo card.

Million units. What are photo cards? So this is.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

In every album you get a random photo card and a random CD from a set of. Like. Six or seven and a random little cut out out of like the six or seven members and a random little.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Like jacket sleeve out of the six or seven that are there. Yeah. And so there are people not not like a flat cloth.

They just ripped.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Album jacket sleeve.

Oh, I see. Right. Yeah.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And then just like different photos or postcards or something like that, and everyone wants to collect all the different ones, or at least collect the ones for their favourite members of the.

Band. So yeah, if they don't get their favourite one, they'll actually buy five more. Rooms.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

So there's a. Huge like. And then they'd sell it on. EBay or something?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Not even necessarily. If you, because if you, if you if you're. In. Korea buying an album? It's quite cheap, really. Yeah, it's quite cheap.

Well, well, would you, would you be able to? Give a rough estimate.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Probably like 8 or $9.

Wow, right. That's very.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Cheap. Yeah, and. Well, kiss like when I've bought it before, it's been like. 8 or. 8 to $12.00, I've bought albums from Korea. It's mean 8 to $12.00 and then plus $72 shipping.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And yeah, so you they'll have. They'll have these big skip bins and they'll be overflown with these albums because you've had fans who have bought 200 shipments, no to try and make sure that.

Right. So there are stories out there like what would an average consumer engage like an average fan obviously got an Uber fan that might buy. 200 units.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

I don't know what an average fan. Would.

Article does go on and talk about these lucky draw albums, which each include a random photo card out of the set, so fans have to purchase multiple copies to get the photo card they want. Or even the full series so you can trade these photo cards.

So there's fans. Also, trade photo cards of their favourite group members or biases. Hmm. Biases. Biases. Yeah. Is that a freeze in that fandom? Biases. That means. Which one do you like biases?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Bias is your favourite. Yeah, and you have ultra bias and you have bias wrecker.

Through these times, so ultra bias is.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

It's not like super blast. I can't remember. Central bias is like your number one out of all.

Right, right. It's like you. Yeah, the 13.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Out of everything. Ohh, right, right. Your voice. OK? Yeah. So.

Like sigh. Sigh, I have ultraviolence for maybe.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Hitchhiker. Yeah. Size your size, your ultra buyers and hitchhikers. Your bias wrecker. Because when he comes along, he takes the spotlight in your heart.

Ohh right, that's the bias.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Right. So yeah, there's a moment in time where Sai was number one and he was my bar ultra bias. And then I have to tell the story of my bias record because then, you know, in 2024, April 10th.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

I listened to hitchhiker and it was a balance wrecker. Moment. Wow. I mean, the lingo.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

So, OK, that's really fascinating. In terms of you know, so fans also trade photo cards. So for their to get their biases, some of these cards. Go up to to. $3000 on secondary markets and fans creating communities to buy and sell cards, along with other merchandise around the world. Are you engaged in that world? Like it?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

I was once to get a lenticular photo card that I.

Wanted. Wow. What made it so important?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

It was just an album that I really liked and I wanted to have my bio.

Was it foxtrot?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

No, no, it was twice as album fancy, yeah.

Wow. That was your bias? Yeah. You still? Have it. Yeah. Yeah. OK. Wow, great. And this was through one of these online trading markets. Huge markup, right, right, right.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Malaysian one I think carousel. What wasn't that? Wasn't that expensive? Yeah, it wasn't that expensive. It was like 8 bucks.

Amp amp. It was like an auction thing you had to bid for it or? Lucky you. Yeah. Well, you're sitting on that gold mine of Bluey. Bunnings.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Names. Yeah. Nomes. So, yeah, you got 2.

Sets. I mean, this isn't too unusual. There are biases, of course, for for which is interesting language.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Umm, popcorn. Well, that that's like the bluey coin sets that came out recently.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Get those from the the like the mint of Australia. Ohh yeah, Sydney Mint or whatever it is and.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, you you had to go into a, like, a raffle in order to get the in order to buy them because they only had a limited run of 1000 for each one. And what turned.

Ohh right, so that popularity.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, turned off again.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And yeah, so I think it was like $30.00 for one. For $1.00 coin right then now at like 8 hundred $900.00 for one $1.00 coin off.

Yeah, everyone loves bluey. Yeah. Yeah. So again, what we're learning here, so we'll wrap up now, what have I learned on today's episode?

Everyone loves blue.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Ultra biases. What was this? What was this about? This. This.

Honestly, this is just an info piece for people that want to figure out.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

What K pop is but how? How are they making history in the UK? How how is 17?

Glastonbury. So demonstrating key pops over ever broadening appeal this week they've become the first Korean Act to play at the iconic Glastonbury Festival in the. UK so that.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Wow, that's that's pretty good. How does that mean that they're more popular than Taylor Swift? Because they're not more popular than Taylor Swift. I mean, I like K pop and. Like 17 but. They are not more popular, they can't go around the world and people gather in such massive drones as they do for.

Well, they, they said by. It's interesting, yeah, because they claim on the second sentence that by at least one metric it's actually a yeah. While many would assume it's Taylor Swift. By at least one metric, it's actually this band 17.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

What metric male male male type of acts?

Well, the glass.

No, I guess it's did she did? Taylor Swift performing Gamble, Glastonbury she.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Taylor Swift doesn't even Char. No, that could be, yeah.

So this might be the metric. That, that, they've they're so big that they've been able now. To perform at Glastonbury.

So wonderful to to have you on. And fortunately, yeah, the the the chip string crashed again. No one messages me.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Well, they can't. It doesn't work.

I always have the chat on.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

YouTube. Ohh fair enough.

Sorry, I actually had the the image over your head anyway.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Ohh that's not.

There you go. OK, well, keep listening. Now change radio. We'll have K pop and Linda coming up next. What's happening on?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, it in a in a while. I mean, I haven't got my songs ready for today.

Whenever I can play some music.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

All right. Thanks for listening to media mothership. We'll be taking a break next week. So we'll be back in a fortnight, show notes and further information are available on Facebook.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And I won't be back for three weeks.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Because of what's behind you.

The grim Reaper.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, well, in a way.

Yeah. Yeah, that's right. You're yeah.

You're doing your community theatre. Yeah, yeah. That'd be great. Agatha Christie.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Agatha Christie, 10 to 20 July at the Playhouse.

You're on my stream. Saying this, you're gonna have a. Huge audience, yeah.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

The unexpected guest.

Unexpected guest.

So you where can you go to find out more about the unexpected guest?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Playhouse.org dot.

AU. OK. There we go. So keep listening now to Edge radio. Coming up eventually over the next one hour period, we'll be keep up unlimited with DJ TJ and DJ.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

If you're lucky.

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