Episode 83 - With host Craig Norris, Co-Host Taylor Lidstone, and special guest Marty Clode
First Broadcast on Edge Radio, 8th August 2024.
Join us for an exciting episode featuring special guest Marty Clode (Zeitgeist_Studios). Marty, a talented figure sculptor, shares the story behind his recent award-winning entry in a local Warhammer 40K Space Marine Painting contest. Discover his approach to custom sculpting faces, creating captivating plinth scenes, and effectively telling a story through his art.
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TRANSCRIPT
This is an AI-generated transcript of the audio and it may contain errors. We may update or correct this transcript in the future. Please contact us if you have any questions about the information in this transcript. The audio is the official record of this episode.
CRAIG NORRIS
Alright, you're you're listening to media mothership here on Edge radio. 99.3 FM. I'm your host, Craig Norris, joined by your Co host Taylor Leadston and special guest Mighty.
Speaker
Right. Hey.
MARTY CLODE
Clode how you doing?
CRAIG NORRIS
We're going. Good, good stuff. The royal we. And I brought you. I brought you in mighty because I wanna deep dive into your scale modelling and miniature work and the kind of.
Speaker
So there.
CRAIG NORRIS
Momentum. You've got to potentially create something and start to release it to. The world? Sure. So if you're at home listening along to us, and you have any questions while we're doing this show, you can SMS US on 04888117 O 7 if you're in the digital world. Where also on the Internet through edgeradio.org dot AU streaming live as well as a video version of it on YouTube and Twitch so you can join us on the chat in YouTube and Twitch. Just by searching media membership, but we're also on the. Dab. Which I I don't feel like. Yeah, I don't feel I ever promote the dab effectively, the digital audio broadcasting. Yeah, system. Yeah. But we are on that as well. So today's topic, we're going to explore.
MARTY CLODE
Everywhere. Never the Deb. Oh, Deb.
CRAIG NORRIS
Scale modelling. So Marty, I'd set it up by talking. I guess we'll start at the end and then we'll go backwards.
MARTY CLODE
I like that. Yeah, like. What's his name? French director Gasperini.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes if. Yeah. Irreversible. Because I guess what we're setting up is the mystery to the resolve. So the most recent thing that has propelled you into some media theme was the Space Marine painting competition that good games organised. So let's start with this moment. If you're watching, I'll bring up the. Image of it on the YouTube. Here you go. So tell me a bit about this competition. Sorry from.
MARTY CLODE
Just got 5th from 6th Last Post I think. Yes, you probably see muzzle flash.
CRAIG NORRIS
That wasn't it there that. Here, here, here, there we. Go. Great. All right, so so.
MARTY CLODE
That's one.
CRAIG NORRIS
It's up there on. The screen what? What is the?
MARTY CLODE
Yeah. As well as got a lot more, you know, got a sentence.
CRAIG NORRIS
Can control it with your mouth.
MARTY CLODE
Of course I can, yeah. So look at this.
CRAIG NORRIS
What is the? So this is Zeitgeist Studios. If you're interested in. You you can check.
MARTY CLODE
Get that?
CRAIG NORRIS
It out on Zynga Studios at Zeitgeist Underscore Studios and this was a space Marine Recon Scout Raptors chapter. Unpack it. So what? What is this figure? What is the hammer? 40,000? What is the miniature space? And what were you putting together with this figure?
MARTY CLODE
Sure thing. OK, this is space marine. My first space Marine I've ever painted so. I'm I generally like military historical subjects and. Which? There's an opportunity for me to sort of branch out and paint something different, and I have been sculpting primarily for, you know, the time I've been back into modelling, not so much painting. So painting something that I love. I just don't get the chance to do it because I sculpt in order to paint the things I sculpt. That's my my mission. Even if it takes a couple of years. Do 1 figure or another or you know it's it's really about I'm trying to have as much fun as I can and I'll be so I've taken this figure. I've gotten some simple rules. It's a warhammer. Yep. So I'm a 3032 millimetre kind of high. It ish. It's probably a little bit bigger than that, but it's the, I guess, the first born space marine. All the stuff I know about now suddenly of fire hose myself and information because I'm not a gamer, I am not.
CRAIG NORRIS
This is a Warhammer 40K. Figure an existing space marine.
MARTY CLODE
A game I will never have been. I think I got as far as fighting fantasy game books when I was in high school like everyone else did, and but I was fascinated by miniature figurines and you know. Little people, really all about little.
CRAIG NORRIS
People because it's interesting. The moment we're in at the now in terms of what's driving the mainstream model miniature scale environment, you've got Warhammer 40K, so Warhammer 40K and this miniature modelling gaming space wasn't one that. You'd had a background in.
MARTY CLODE
No, no.
CRAIG NORRIS
But it's big, isn't it? Were. You were you kind of. You saw this ad in the local game store in Hobart. Good games. And they were promoting a competition for miniature painting.
MARTY CLODE
Games. Yeah, local miniature painting comp small, you know, shop based comp, so. Good games. There's a a chain. I guess it's a a franchise across Australia, I believe just Australia and yeah, this is just a local Hobart based camp. Yeah, fairly informal. You know, simple rules. A couple of I think the two rules were the rules where you could change two things on the miniature. So you could swap out an arm or a head.
CRAIG NORRIS
What were?
MARTY CLODE
So I kind of went well. I don't really have any other space marine or 40K bits and pieces lying around. I'll just I'll sculpt to here kind of him. I'll redo his face. I'm making look like me actually.
Speaker
Yes.
MARTY CLODE
I'll kind of I'll do a bit of a self portrait and then I'll do a muzzle flash and oh gosh, I'll had some Molly straps on the, you know, it was pouches and skipped a little skull there. And, you know, I guess I probably added about seven things other than. But, you know, they're pretty flexible. And it wasn't. Yeah, it wasn't hard and fast.
CRAIG NORRIS
To cause it's the mechanics of it are to sculpt that face or the head onto it. Again. What? What? What was the A-Z?
MARTY CLODE
Of that AZ. Will. A little bit of carving back. So we're I was gonna add some detail which was pretty much in his upper nose bridge and forehead, a lot of forehead creases and and some veins popping out of the. Sides. Of both sides of his head, you know, and this. Temporal veins, you know, and and the sort of what do you call it? Island haircut. I'll call it. Pretty military looking haircut. And yeah, I didn't really carve a lot off more just sort of sanded back a bit of stuff and added some greener stuff. Such a tiny area to work on that you, you know, I green stuff. I just used it straight cause it's quite sticky and not lamb mix wooden Milly part another two part epoxy clay, which models will be familiar with maybe the general public.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes.
MARTY CLODE
This zero idea about probably would guess that, but the plumbers might know about Millie. It's a plumbing, it's a plumbing, originally a Welsh product, yeah. For years.
CRAIG NORRIS
And it it is available.
MARTY CLODE
So anyway.
CRAIG NORRIS
Locally, I mean you don't need to go. Overseas to grab this.
MARTY CLODE
Stuff. It's really no, no. You can probably buy it from the, you know, the local model shop or but you know, of course we're living in a small town and supplies get low. I go to get some math vans. Oops. Out I.
Speaker
No.
MARTY CLODE
Go. To get this, and you know a shop. 'S. Not going to get a huge. A range of stuff, and it might be easier to live in Melbourne and as a modeller because you sort of just go, you know, you got 17 stores we have, I think. One dedicate kind of scale modelling. There's another one that's more towards car modelling and then you've got the gaming kind of things which are mainly gaming stuff, gaming figures and paints. And this is where I kind of contact those. You know, where I have contact with them and buying paints, buying brushes, buying equipment and.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah. Because this brings us back to the this more mainstream space where the Warhammer 40K incredibly successful. From what I know again, I'm not all hammer 40K person, but you know we're talking miniature battles. You've got your armies of, you know, kind of.
MARTY CLODE
Oh.
CRAIG NORRIS
Testosterone induced gun blazing marine dudes kind of science fiction battling against assortment. Of.
MARTY CLODE
Turns and yes, Jackie Kona, are you looking things?
CRAIG NORRIS
So you, you. Have threw yourself into it? Well, what? As you were sculpting and trading to think, how do I take something which is very kind of off the shelf figure? Hmm. For this competition, how do I tell a story? What? What's something unique? I can do to this. Which which which puts my fingerprints. How how did you approach that?
MARTY CLODE
I guess it was. I took a step back from the whole kind of Warhammer thing, which I am not a part of anyway, or I am back from it and I looked at the most looked at kind of what, you know what Space Marines were these juiced up, you know? Enhanced kind of human beings with power armour and you know their different chapters with different kind of logos and, you know, found this. The Raptors were as close to sort of the real world as I as. I you know. As I like because I didn't really didn't want to have flashy what do they have, you know, purity, purity seals and big kind of all the kind of classic ultramarine. Get up. You know, I like the Raptors. I kind of got attracted to that. Oh, Gee, there's and you know, they're called reasonable Marines. I think you know some Monica like, there's just nothing.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah.
MARTY CLODE
Kind of flashy about them. They're camo, they're ready for battle. They're, you know, in the jungle or they're, you know, they adapt their power armour to sort of fit in.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah. It reminds me, yeah.
MARTY CLODE
And whatever camo, ice, ice. You know, like, say, people in the battle about, you know, soldiers in battle of bulge with winter camp, you know, white white washed the tanks. So, you know, they white washed their power armour or they're in the desert. So they do it. So I've got this. And I did a little nod to, you know, the real world to historical modelling. By painting British desert DPM on over the top of what would have been the Raptors kind of Forest Green armour and it's, you know, chipped off in areas and. Yeah, there's the Raptors logo kind of painted. Originally on the green, and they've kind of painted up to the edge there. And you know, so I've got a, yeah, taken taken the figure where I wanted. I just wanted to get take it, you know, want to do what I wanted to do with it, you know, not I didn't want to be dictated to. I wanted to sort of within the rules of, you know, I sort of realised it. Warhammer is very, you know, it's kind of like historical modelling cause there are, you know, there's a history and there's codexes and there's very there's so much law. And Henry Cavill, yeah, there's.
CRAIG NORRIS
I think Henry Cavill, huge celebrity Hollywood, is a huge fans of this.
MARTY CLODE
And, you know Gundam and you know, getting back to. It's place and sort of modelling going down and going down. And going is, yeah, you're banned, alright.
CRAIG NORRIS
The Japanese giant Robots Gundam series.
MARTY CLODE
Big knickers and stuff. And Warhammer are the kind of gateway drugs for a lot of young people. You know, this is one of the biggest points I think that needs to be made though. One of the largest sort of gateway drugs for people getting into modelling, they're not probably gonna do it.
Speaker
Yeah.
MARTY CLODE
Through. Let's say modelling the US and Lebanon in 198093 or something.
CRAIG NORRIS
No.
MARTY CLODE
It means nothing to them that. More of me, having grown up in the Cold War and during that time as a Gen X.
Speaker
Technically.
CRAIG NORRIS
Or a Spitfire. Willies a Spitfire?
MARTY CLODE
Here in about World War, two stories from grandparents, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Those aren't the gateways, and it's interesting even in like Big WI noticed they've got a modelling section now with some Bondi Star Wars kits and some one piece model kits, right? The actual I think there's some vehicle models and actual character.
MARTY CLODE
No, they're not anymore. Not anymore. Nice. I didn't know that.
CRAIG NORRIS
Models they've got from one piece there. And and your basic kind of modelling supply kit, your nippers and there's no paint though, right? That's a really fascinating thing. I saw that no paint. All these kids are colour moulded so that you snap, fit them together and you don't paint them.
MARTY CLODE
Yeah, nice one. That's the band I.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, the mainly the all the Bandai stuff and.
MARTY CLODE
Kind of recipe, isn't it? For for you know, their kids. So yeah, people can just do them out of the box and and they snap. Together right there. The Star Wars line, right? But that that will snap together as well, you know, must slide together.
CRAIG NORRIS
Which always. Yeah, that's right. And it's.
MARTY CLODE
Fascinating. Really need. You don't need glue. I mean, I'll use it. But you.
CRAIG NORRIS
Don't need it? I mean, there's there's a there's a certain hierarchy, I guess in terms of those snap kits have evolved. I mean, I only knew them previously from the 80s where they were very crap.
MARTY CLODE
Yeah. And they they did snap they. Were kind of.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, that's right. And that big condom.
MARTY CLODE
Clipped together and.
CRAIG NORRIS
But yeah, it was fascinating looking at some of the new kits that Monday launched with huge properties like Star Wars and.
MARTY CLODE
To see some slide moulding technology and you know this sort of thing.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah. Obviously, the technology of being able to use, I am going to say the word CAD, I've never used a CAD machine or that geometry stuff, but.
Speaker
She.
CRAIG NORRIS
Obviously that level of being able to create the architecture of a model on the computer 1st and then produce it.
MARTY CLODE
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
But your, your, your. Approach is very old school, right? You're not sitting there.
MARTY CLODE
It is very old. Yeah, yeah, you're right. I don't really think about that, but that's a good observation, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
And it still has. A kind of connection and conversation in the mainstream. So the good games competitions fun because there you are with the skills you've developed with very niche topics. What was the reception like to this piece in the competition? Did they get it? Did did anyone? Get it? I mean the level. Of storytelling or detailing?
MARTY CLODE
I like honesty and and criticism, you know? And I did have one guy who I said tell me be brutal and he found the one fault on it, which I do believe there. Is. Which I could. Point out as well. And you know, I think I was talking about the kind of general subject of non metal metal and getting it right. And you know, there was a time, there was a time limit. I painted this and I think started 10 days before the you.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes. Know. So there were two rules. One was you. Could only replace two parts of.
MARTY CLODE
The model changed two things, but it wasn't hard and fast. It wasn't like a golden demon. Or anything. I mean, I think a lot of a lot of the modellers, a lot of the painters were. Pretty, you know, maybe pretty flexible in their approach too.
CRAIG NORRIS
But you had a time on it, and uh, that's what. You needed to take photos. Of it didn't you to show it? No, I did.
MARTY CLODE
No, no, I didn't need to take photos. No, this is a. It was a in, you know, in person comp. So bring them. Bring them in. So yeah. So there was a a kind of objective if you can just judging every objective. And there was a panel of of people who kind of not connected to.
Speaker
Ohh really?
MARTY CLODE
You know, I think was as far disconnected from the kind of pain in the people in it as. Much as possible. Some people couldn't enter it cause of that I think and and yeah, they deliberately deliberated and I think there was quite a bit of difficulty choosing, you know, places, winners and winners. It was funny word to use I mean. Because I think judging is very objective and you know you don't know what's in the mind of the judge. You can't read minds. You don't know what they've got in mind. You know, I think the style I came at it with is very, very much a photographic style it. Looks better. In a photo than it does. It's not a tabletop miniature. It's on a big. You know, a wooden plinth with a, you know, a scenic base with sort of desert environment. So that's another thing that I, you know basing and environment very much as a part of the kind of figure itself as the figure. It's not just I'm making them on a little. Round because the base is. I don't get that. I don't. Yeah, for me.
CRAIG NORRIS
You got a bit of grass.
MARTY CLODE
Ground ground worker, the ground workers, part of a figure. You know you don't float around in the air. You walk on the earth. You we're we're earthlings.
CRAIG NORRIS
And then what were the substances? And I guess the story that it tells is so.
MARTY CLODE
We leave footprints. When?
CRAIG NORRIS
Much more powerful.
MARTY CLODE
We walk and you know, mud catches us and snow lands on us and, you know, clothes get water stains and yeah, that that's part of the story telling the story. So that was what I was trying to do with the figures as much have. It tells a story as just represent, you know, a character and a kind of imaginary world world. So he's he's walking across very rocky, you know, kind of.
CRAIG NORRIS
Because what is he standing on?
MARTY CLODE
It's fiery kind of looking planet, very.
CRAIG NORRIS
So you've found small pebbles.
MARTY CLODE
Hot. Obviously. Really. Hot. No, no, no, I I just sculpted the whole thing and Milly put again just using using.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah.
MARTY CLODE
Kind of. Using press moulding so using different text different things to sort of create textures. Yeah, there's there's ways to sort of make things look really lifelike without you know for example using. Stuff blue stuff kind of thermoplastic. So you can mould rocks and then get the impression of the rock and then shove some, you know, epoxy party in and then.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah. You've got your real.
MARTY CLODE
Christo, you've got a little scenic base. Yeah, there's cheeks. There's about 5 different plants. Five different dried. They're just different things I've collected along the way. And.
CRAIG NORRIS
Lock you've you've also got like weeds there. What's how did you create the? How did you do that? You'll be walking on the side of. The road and you'll see that's perfect.
MARTY CLODE
Off from the side of the road? Yeah, often they're often waves and some of them are very fine and.
Speaker
Yeah.
MARTY CLODE
There are different ones that grow all over the world, very similar looking things and yeah, yeah, that's something I've collected along the way and put in a, you know, a topware container and.
CRAIG NORRIS
I love the idea of seeing you on the solar Rd bending over it, forensically gathering.
Speaker
Hmm.
MARTY CLODE
People will. People will see. It. From time to time, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
How do you and and and you just use a some kind of code of? Paint over the. Top of it to preserve it or. Well, if you're using like real organic things within there.
MARTY CLODE
Things I I think I may I think one of them may have been treated with glycerin, which is a way of preserving plants. When you first chop something. You can kind of put it in a 5050 glycerin mix and it basically and views itself and it goes up into the veins of the osmotically. Yes, really sucks itself up into the plant. And all. The. Becomes kind of plasticized. It's full of like glycerin, really, and you can dye the glycerin and colour it, keep it coloured and but it's kind of fatty. It makes it a little oily. It's strange to use it, so I don't know if I've done that with any of those. Don't think they have. I think I've pretty much just primed them. Zenithal you primed the whole thing, which is. We can talk about cynical priming, but they're all priming and they're all highlighting, I don't know.
CRAIG NORRIS
So the at one level.
MARTY CLODE
But that that's been that's been heavily primed in a nice big thick coat of or thick coat of Mr Surfacer black. Really good 1500, I think so. It's got a very fine patina. It's not, you know, it's great to paint on. It's pretty much bites into the plastic. So it's, you know, blacker.
Speaker
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Because it's interesting we're we're talking, I. Think at the.
Speaker
It is steady.
CRAIG NORRIS
Moments here. One is that barrier the the the gateway drug as you were talking about this is.
Speaker
To the.
CRAIG NORRIS
The Warhammer space, the Gundam model space very open. It's it's in your your big commercial stores like. Big W these days, but. Also, there are there is a huge learning curve once you want to develop a kind of vocabulary around creating effective. Models that are going to tell us. Sorry, the conversations around this piece, did you talk to some of the other competitors or people that were there during the day about like you were saying, how did you do that or or I mean that?
MARTY CLODE
It. Conversation. No, no, not really. It's a case of there's many compound drop off the many wait to hear back on social media. Who's the winner?
CRAIG NORRIS
You have. You have got some. Nice replies like like well done.
MARTY CLODE
There were some. Yeah. Yeah, there was some. Some really nice. There was some, really, some really, really friendly kind of banter between us and banter. But you know.
CRAIG NORRIS
Have you got announced?
MARTY CLODE
Yeah. Congratulations between sort of winners and and place people who placed I guess so it's nice. OK. I came second. Yeah. Yeah, it.
CRAIG NORRIS
You came second.
MARTY CLODE
Was really good.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, I mean, I mean for space again which which is a stretch from your normal material.
MARTY CLODE
I'm a noob. I'm a I'm an outsider, you know. They looked at me funny. I was asking about law and they're like. Who is this?
CRAIG NORRIS
Guy because everyone else in the competition was very much part of that fandom. Were there any other people similar to yourself who were?
Speaker
No.
MARTY CLODE
I imagine those. Yeah, I I'm not aware. I'm not aware of it. I'm pretty much sure I was the only kind. Of non yeah. 40K involved or adjacent, you know painter.
CRAIG NORRIS
Because they're not, yeah.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
I have to say I I still don't get it. So like.
MARTY CLODE
What do you mean?
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Does it like as as part of a competition?
MARTY CLODE
Hmm.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Do they give you something to work with and then you build on top of it? Or do you like cause you said that you've got the head? Did you did? Did it already come with the head and you took the head off and then sculpted another one to go in there sort of thing or?
Speaker
Oh yeah.
MARTY CLODE
No. So we we got blind blind box kind of kits. So the blind boxes where? And about. The minis maybe. I think there's 12 or so 15 in each and you sort of they just give you, you know, a blind box and you open it, you've got, yeah, plastic space marine. The parts on a screw. There's everything there, the head. Helmeted head base. So yeah, the head is it everything sort of fits very well. It's, you know, there are plugs as well looking for the arms and. It does actually snap together. That's right.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
So then you can like mix and match those.
MARTY CLODE
You can put it put another head on and. OK. Yeah. And people, you know, I guess play as painters do that and adapt figures and, you know, change an arm and put it in a different position or swap an arm and a different weapon. And. And I I kept the figure pretty much in the basic pose. So he's blasting a. What is it? A bolt gun on Full Auto, I guess. And yeah, so I didn't sort of change the figure. It looks basically like the same the form still there, you know everything I think I took off a purity seal ladders and mould straps these kind of attachment straps on his holster. And yeah, didn't really alter it much as much as much as other painters. But yeah. And then.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah. OK.
MARTY CLODE
Green stuff work on the face. And.
CRAIG NORRIS
The other thing that's striking is how small the scale is that this is in terms of the amount of detail.
Speaker
You're.
CRAIG NORRIS
Got various magnifying lenses you're using? I mean, if someone's to walk into you as you were doing this, they'd see you crouched over a table with various levels of microscope or or magnifying glass.
MARTY CLODE
What are they called? Optimisers. Yeah, many different types over the years, and they're. All.
CRAIG NORRIS
Like you'd imagine, like watch repairs has.
MARTY CLODE
They're very primitive. Yeah. Look, doctors, you know, medical staff and dentists use ones that have head up displays and then all sorts of things. I don't know. I've got just.
CRAIG NORRIS
Like.
MARTY CLODE
Your you know. Sort of standard entry level. I'm sure they're not that, you know, optically. Well designed, I think the better ones are the ones with the just a single piece there. They kind of bubble out. So they've got they're convex on the front. So yeah, they, you know, have different lenses you can pop in 1 1/2 times magnification, 2 1/2 three and a half usually work at I think 3 1/2 is sufficient to sort of be able to, you know, see well and I wear them over reading glasses.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes.
MARTY CLODE
Though I there's no way I could even even with reading glasses sculpt, let's look at the, you know, the hair texture. Yeah. This is or the skull on the Aquila.
CRAIG NORRIS
So now this, this, this. Photo there that you have is an early version of what you were starting with the red.
MARTY CLODE
Yeah, this is this is a garish red plastic. I think he was supposed to be be a blood Angel. So they've done that kind of Bandai thing moulding in in the in the colour. So I mean, you know, players might play with it a little red toy, but look at the detail. You know, there's individual teeth. That's really amazing. The actual quality of the casting itself.
CRAIG NORRIS
And of course, the photo we're looking at is you can see the scale by the thumb. I imagine that's your thumb. That's against it.
Speaker
Thanks to it.
MARTY CLODE
That's my thumbnail, so it's it's a thumbnail, it's it's side of Earth. It's light horizon curve there.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
My God. OK, right.
CRAIG NORRIS
And we can see your fingerprint on the other side of it. So it shows that again, it's a it's a very, very tiny figure.
Speaker
Any.
MARTY CLODE
And that's pushing my mobile phone camera to the limit. You know, it's pretty difficult to get good images. Yeah. Gosh, you probably have to take like 30 to get one good one and. I don't know what just happened.
CRAIG NORRIS
So again there is there is that entry point where you don't need any kits really apart from something to cut the screws with. But then if you want to take it further to again I guess tell that story beyond it being just a mass produced. Object to really lend it that, yeah.
Speaker
Hmm.
MARTY CLODE
Turn it into a bit of art or a bit of you know. Signature on an art certificate word artisanship might be better. Better way to put it. So bring it, bring it to the.
CRAIG NORRIS
What where do? You think the conflict around art and. Miniature modelling or?
MARTY CLODE
I think it's the value and the object of the. You know the individual object, so I'll look at that space marine and. OK, what can I do with this? How? How far can I push this to? What's the limit? I can push this to with detail with. You know, and there's indulges and I wanted to try everything on this space marine and not have to do another six space Marines. I just sort of, you know, it was it was a foray into something different and.
CRAIG NORRIS
Is it a pathway that anyone can pursue to make money from? Are there?
MARTY CLODE
It's sad seeing it. Of course it is. Yeah. I mean, sorry. Let me to you know, it is very much so. I'm not sure if you were, but there's people who. It's, you know, possibly. Almost make a living off it. You know, if you look at some of the more successful Youtubers.
CRAIG NORRIS
And this is specifically within the space, yeah.
MARTY CLODE
What if you were talking about the sort of Warhammer stuff? Yeah, some of your Don Serratos on Instagram, you know, you got a lot of people cross platform, so they've got patreons, but they've got videos up on Instagram, they've got YouTube content.
CRAIG NORRIS
Has this.
MARTY CLODE
Akhil heralded Z, for example. He's he's big on YouTube. I think you know, a lot of these top painters and.
CRAIG NORRIS
Work you've done. Yeah.
MARTY CLODE
Was Eric Swinson also, you know, kind of fantasy or warhammer painter? Great long form sort of videos of him painting and his technique and discussing it. And you know, you really get to sort of. Almost. Get inside his head and really see you know what the what processes are going.
CRAIG NORRIS
And then as an entry point, it's fantastic. The journey that can take you on, I mean going from just a gamer for Warhammer. Suddenly, if you found yourself being thrown into wanting to create.
MARTY CLODE
On and and.
Speaker
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Nicer looking figures. Suddenly there you're engaging with questions of anatomy of pigmentation of, you know, using clay work. It's it has has this figure on your own Instagram feed drawn a new audience into your work. Have you noticed any people?
MARTY CLODE
Let's have let's have a look. Any lights as it had. As we mentioned and he likes us, Scott. Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
It's more than my episode.
MARTY CLODE
It's got it's got 22 likes. Alright, that's fine. It's not about that for me. I'm. I'm having a lot of fun doing it. It's almost a an added extra. I should probably post that. It looks pretty good. I should maybe share.
CRAIG NORRIS
Around it is challenging, though. Building that audience, I mean the role of social media. One of the conversations we had leading up to this was the explosion in podcasting around scale modelling. And you've created a fantastic list on Spotify, which I'll see if I can put in the show notes because yeah, it's.
Speaker
Hmm.
CRAIG NORRIS
It has some really interesting episodes, including one on social media where they talk about the role of social media and gaming in scale, modelling and miniature work, how it's really helped balloon the. The barriers of entry again for those people that are kind of knowledgeable in this space or getting answers to problems they're facing, it can be difficult in a local environment like Hobart where there's not many other people and where there are people, it's a rather solitary pursuit where you don't know unless a competition like the one in good games. Pops up where suddenly you're aware of people modelling, so it can be only through social media that many people first reach out and find others that share.
MARTY CLODE
This interest very much so I think it is the Community that when people talk about the modelling community or the painting community, they're often talking now instead of the local. Group of people who they met up with, which once was probably well, no, was the only means of of meeting other modellers in model clubs. Back in the 1980s and 90s, when I was when I first got into it. Social media has democratised it. It's allowed people to sort of through, you know. Models and painters putting up content and tips and tricks and just sharing it and sort of not being gatekeepers as much as they were. I think when I got into model making you.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes.
MARTY CLODE
Know you had.
Speaker 1
Good.
MARTY CLODE
You had, I guess that was sort of. The the figureheads of the of the hobby, you know, Sheppard Payne, Francois Verlinden? Yep, they were the big names and they they had a style and you know you wanted to. Emulated it was, it was sort of. That was all there really was, but it was a lot. It was amazing and they produced books that you know. We would. You absolutely.
CRAIG NORRIS
You find one in the local library. Maybe mine scale modeller, kind of.
MARTY CLODE
Go read it 100 times and yeah. I remember having a. Fine scale modelling magazines, even looking at Jane's Defence weeklies, looking at new military tech and.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah.
MARTY CLODE
You know, frothing over that and whatever we could kind of get our hands on, I guess you know. Now we've just. Absolutely spoiled. It's it is like I think a lot of people say it is a golden age. I would agree. I think it is a golden age for modelling and miniature art and. It's been, you know, like I say, it's been democratised, I think. Just seeing the kind of wealth of you know. Every week I probably. Follow another 5030 to 50 accounts. From a lot of mainly fantasy painters, it seems to be. Huge amount of people who painting busts and not traditional kind of hammer stuff.
CRAIG NORRIS
Which one like Conan type?
MARTY CLODE
Yeah. Yeah. A lot of this more popular fantasy, a lot of. Fantasy figure comps are not so much dominated by Warhammer anymore, but by busts and 75 millimetre figures and more sort. Of. Academic pose figures and you know, sort of getting more I think closer to fine art. So where people think of it's either military or warhammer fantasy, it's not.
CRAIG NORRIS
Well, it's going on. Could you?
MARTY CLODE
Just like that, there's massive kind of Nexus between the two. There's you.
CRAIG NORRIS
Know there are artists who have dabbled in this space. I know there's one work that the Adelaide Art Gallery has which is amazing of I think it's two British artists. Who basically created a diorama with? I think it's 148 scale figures of the German in hell. The Nazis in hell.
MARTY CLODE
OK. We're talking about the Chapman brothers, right. Shaking. Dennis Chapman. Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
They have the Chapman brothers. Yeah. And they, they, they just grabbed these pre produced kits and then they resculpted them.
Speaker
And.
MARTY CLODE
Yeah, they were.
CRAIG NORRIS
Chapman, brothers. Yeah, it's an. Amazing piece. It's like them in hell.
MARTY CLODE
Thousands of figures, I think Hell was destroyed in the fire. I think two of them were two of the actual things destroying the fire. They rebuilt another one. But the I think the point of it wasn't the workmanship of the figures. It was the, the whole kind of scene was Bosh. Like hell portrait. You know, there was a, I think Ronald McDonald crucified.
CRAIG NORRIS
With McDonald's. All right. Story that's there. That's right. There's all this McDonald's. Like, there's a grimace in there. Half of them are skeletons.
MARTY CLODE
Nazis torturing Nazis. Grimas is there? Yeah, it's it's. A it's a clownish hellscape. It's a kind of like a indictment of modern consumer society. It's it's quite punk, you know, it's quite controversial.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah. And on that.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Spectrum of salt for 7 million apparently, yeah.
MARTY CLODE
Sold for 7 million.
CRAIG NORRIS
Wow. And it's in a nightgown again. The I was surprised to see that the Adelaide are going and. It's fantastic they. Have two of their diorama pieces, one where you can see Hitler painting in the on the hill as he's looking out across this Auschwitz like Hieronymus Bosch landscape of the.
MARTY CLODE
Right.
CRAIG NORRIS
These German soldiers coming in from a train. It's at one level, incredibly ghoulish and powerful and storytelling, but with with an interesting scale modelling also incredibly exciting in terms of the the, the potential there that you're not simply creating something in terms of how necessarily authentic it is, but letting your imagination go wild and what story.
MARTY CLODE
Was.
CRAIG NORRIS
May tell from this canvas.
MARTY CLODE
And I think it's drawing in the public in a way that traditional model making.
Speaker
Yeah.
MARTY CLODE
Often isn't able to do unless you sort of connected to it or knows someone, a family member or a friend who's you know, then they might go to a show, see your work, or see. You'll go together and look at some models at Melbourne Model Expo or, you know one of the other sort of comps around, but you're not going to so much see that that controversial.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah.
MARTY CLODE
I mean that to me. I guess it's a space that exists and isn't really the model making space. It's using model making to make.
Speaker
OK.
MARTY CLODE
Art. But people will look at it and go, oh gosh, you know, those are models. Those are plastic models they recognise. The sort of components that make it up or for their toy figures, or, you know, plastic, Tamir figures or something that sort. Of. It makes it like familiar, you know. We kind of grew up with these. This stuff and and and it's.
Speaker
Because I guess I.
CRAIG NORRIS
Mean even if you talk with any of.
MARTY CLODE
Subverting it to A to a point that you know.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, because there's a whole, you know, kind of engagement with modelling that's in so many movies, certainly movies from the 70s, eighties, 90s where you'd have, you know, your Imperial Star Destroyer from Star Wars, basically cobbled together from various Tamia kits and. Part of it's kind of unique, but it creates something which isn't. The German Panzer tank, but there are bits and pieces of of that kit and other kits. It does show you that that kid bashing is is is a kind of exciting way to take these mainstream objects and make them, umm, in a very punk way, something quite different.
MARTY CLODE
Yeah, but I think it's getting back to you know, the Chapman brothers. So I'm not sure if you're aware of. OK interactive. They did a book a few years ago.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes.
MARTY CLODE
Condemnation, condemnation, condemnation and it went down like a lead balloon due to the marketing campaign, the way they sort of handled it, and I think they were. Wanting to sort of. And they they did in almost every every instance produced some really thought provoking, you know. Just shoving the truth in people's face about the reality of war and. Poverty. And there's a little African kids standing on a mountain of rubbish bags, multi coloured, you know, green and black rubbish bags and seagulls and. And I'm not sure what the caption was on it, but you know it's got this sort. Of very poignant very. Strong social messaging. And sort of saying, you know, why don't we use modern to sort of make more?
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah.
MARTY CLODE
Of. A statement about excuse me, all the all the crap going on in the world. All the **** that's going down. Why? Don't we actually, you know, why is war? Why are we having? Like, why we make it look like a like a lark, like a holiday? Like it's that show. The horror of it. Instead, why can't we do that with modelling, you know?
CRAIG NORRIS
Interesting, yeah. Because here we have a keen directive, mostly known, I guess for their various paints and weathering. Yeah. And you know, kind of. Things you can add to models and they have done a number of magazine issues and and most of those would be standards you know. Here's here's your Star Wars model kits that have been kind of appropriated in some way, but this the politics of this, yes, would have been really controversial in the community which.
Speaker
Hmm.
CRAIG NORRIS
Some of it, which would would define it purely as you know where where, where about taking history. Things.
MARTY CLODE
Yeah, I think it's about taste. You know how they approached it? The. 1. I better give context. OK, I'm for you know, listeners, of course we know about it, but the book had a once one article that was about how to build a gas chamber, you know, to represent a diorama of Auschwitz. And I think it was in a in a little ad on YouTube and and that featured in it and. Yeah, it went down pretty badly and I said no, no, no, no, no. You've done it all wrong. Terrible, bad taste. But a lot of the content you. Know the I think the. The intention was right. They wanted to sort of. Uhm. You know, breach these these taboo topics and. Have them represented in models. But they just went about it the wrong way. And you know they're a big company and you know there was. I think smarter minds didn't prevail in in that case, but they they also admitted their, you know, their mistake too. So it's, you know, the human beings. They made a mistake and have have writed it and kind of, you know, carried on and and they're a huge contributor sort of to the accessibility of modelling, you know, by producing everything under the sun, you know, books on. Painting Gundam Mecca, withering Mecca to making a die cast model look like a. I think there was a K1 of the, you know, Valera, K1 of the big kind of Spanish school model. You know, producers, manufacturers.
CRAIG NORRIS
And I want to get back if we can to the bus you were talking about and how that you've noticed as you've been looking through the socials and various information sources for modelling that there's a lot of bust work that's happening cause you yourself have been a creator of bust. Figures. The one you were showing me before the show. The that you've been sitting the Ukrainian soldier take us through this a bit. This story behind this figure, it's not currently on your Instagram page.
Speaker
June.
MARTY CLODE
There is, it is. Yep.
CRAIG NORRIS
Because here we have and I again. I guess engaging with that idea of how you could possibly tell stories. Here we have a a current kind of political issue, real geopolitical concerns going on. And you're engaging with it through modelling.
MARTY CLODE
Yeah, it's I think something that could be. A little bit of a sensitive subject modelling award that's going on right now. You know, I kind of treaded carefully. I just wanted to represent. The sort of struggle and.
CRAIG NORRIS
So we have a what you've been sculpting is a is a bust of a.
Speaker
Individual.
CRAIG NORRIS
Figure a soldier.
MARTY CLODE
Yeah, as from 2022, I guess the start of the. War in Ukraine and he's sort of pretty wary. I've tried to tell a story with this past, like really capture a lot of emotion in his face and. You have that sort of well, he's, you know, young guy. But he looks like he's aged about 10 years, so. Here's another one of his face. Sign on. So it's very much the individual experience, you know, with figures, it's about you see you see the face, you see the life, the expression, you know, and that scale, it's one sixth scale.
CRAIG NORRIS
The vein on the. Side of the head is closing, yeah.
MARTY CLODE
So it's quite large. You know normally. Some of the other busts I've been working on are 110th. Is often the sort of. It seems like the industry standard, like really popular scale. It's just a good size too. This one here. I think this is actually about 112th, so it's about half the scale. I mean, there's no, you know, no set scale for busts. It's just when you sort of look at the history of, you know, often see classical composers, Mozart, Wagner, et cetera. And they're. Yeah, they're big one quarter scale. 1/3 to 1/4 scale. You know it's heading towards sort of being a statue almost then and very, you know, you can really get detail on the no need for devises, you're using your hands almost.
CRAIG NORRIS
But you mentioned. You know this, this piece and the conversation that you're having with it, the story that it's telling, did it, you know, there there are moments where, I mean, even here in Hobart, there'll be visiting people from Ukraine. They were mentioning there was a Ukrainian soldier that came to about recently.
MARTY CLODE
Yeah, Ukrainian officer. So he was a major and.
CRAIG NORRIS
Talking.
MARTY CLODE
I believe you might have been decorated in the Battle of Kison, right? And I presented him, gifted him with some artwork that I've made of. So I'll say to painting and not as often as I'd like to, but this was a piece that I did in 2022 of a female Ukrainian soldier from a photograph.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right.
MARTY CLODE
Yeah, just capturing. Well, the amount of animals have been displaced too, you know, cats and dogs and trenches and.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah. Yeah, so this was.
MARTY CLODE
The animal companions for.
CRAIG NORRIS
You created and how did he react when you gave? Him the speech.
MARTY CLODE
It's incredibly touched, incredibly moved, and yeah, he wanted me to sign it and write a little message on the back, and it was it was very, very.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah. Special I mean, for me, that's an interesting contrast to those experiences where you do bring this hobby into the.
MARTY CLODE
Very nice.
CRAIG NORRIS
Public on one hand, with the Warhammer figure, you know a conventional competition, and then those moments where there's someone presenting and talking about the experience and you. You can also bring that art into a conversation with them to. To get them to recognise.
MARTY CLODE
Yeah. To demonstrate something, I mean, I guess a show of. Appreciation for yeah. You know what they're doing and. What is the kind of? Globally linked war, you know we're all affected by it now it's. Has changed our lives like COVID, Nid, and the lockdowns did. This is yeah, it's made massive. Kind of ripples through our lives now and I guess through, you know, it's my sort of way of. Saying thank you. You know, and he was to see his reaction was, you know, this is a really hard guys seen. He's seen as men die seeing, you know men. Under him, die and good young man, you know, lose their lives fighting for what anyone would, you know, fighting for their own existence. Yeah, I just it was, it was really special for me just to see the emotion in his his face, you know, and. To see how much it touched and it wonderful. He felt. You know how much sort of support. There was out there, not just in his own country, but you know in.
CRAIG NORRIS
Other countries, and it is interesting how these objects can sometimes transcend words. Yeah, where it's very difficult to put into words. Some I I expect of it. And again, maybe scale modelling, miniature work. Art provides a really important communication. Function that sometimes we don't recognise the the impact of music. So the the we've only got about 5 minutes left and it is a shame because we did want to get around to talking. About wine modellers. Are brought to certain topics. Yes, I'll get the stream going again. Thank you. That's why we've got. A second monitor there with my stream. Now sure, it's actually worked now. Back thank you for those callers letting us know.
MARTY CLODE
Is there any questions or comments or?
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we do. We do. We do. We do have a a comment from it's it's, it's electric. It's just a picture and stop streaming, OK.
MARTY CLODE
On people out there, what's going on? And you can use super chats would be nice. Alright.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Again.
CRAIG NORRIS
Well, we, we we we kind of are getting I'm going to open it again for people that are listening along and the audio while she's actually messaging saying yeah get.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
OK.
CRAIG NORRIS
Out for stream. But yeah, it's a shame because I did want to talk. About why, modellers. Are drawn to certain topics.
MARTY CLODE
Sure we need. For two hours and.
CRAIG NORRIS
We do. So we might say, if people want to find out more though, where can?
Speaker
Yeah.
MARTY CLODE
Sure. They go right. I'm the quiet modeller. I'm. Very. You know, I'm not that prolific. I work on slowly wage about things, but I have a an Instagram page which is a primary kind of point of contact for me and way to sort of look at my works in progress. It's very much. Sneak peeks. There's. Yeah, a lot of works in progress. So start a few finished pieces, but a lot of my sculpture, some drawing recently finished, painted figures and close ups of some of the scratch building. Yep, that's a zeitgeist underscore studio. So that's ZEITG eist like the German word, which means spirit of our time. In case you're wondering, and that's another story, too. Site Geist. Underscore studios. Yes. Just before it would be studio, but someone else took that and.
Speaker
Great.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
We finish.
MARTY CLODE
I draw and paint, so I do have studios, so it's alright, you know it's. It is fitting just before we finish.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
How did you get? The muzzle flash to look like that. Is there like a little LED in there or something? It looks like it's. Lit it lit.
CRAIG NORRIS
Up paint. Paint. Really. That's purely a painter cake.
MARTY CLODE
Wow, there's no there's no light. There's no. I've used no philtres on those images too, so that's. A base of white paint. Let's. Let's go right back to it. OK, I've drilled out the bowl. I've stretched out a bit of clear plastic screw over a. Candle. I have then sculpted and green stuff. 3 muzzle flashes, so sort of like a spiky, almost like. A. A pineapple basically scoped a little pineapple and then another two little pineapples on these little clear plastic rods. And then I've sculpted a slug. So at the end you can see the slug, right? And then I've.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right. Yes, you can see. Bullet.
MARTY CLODE
Airbrushed. The slug and the flashes white. And then after I brushed back against them in a darker and kind of red, and then I've used. I've gone in there. I've airbrushed a little bit of fluorescent.
CRAIG NORRIS
Wow.
MARTY CLODE
Orange and fluorescent yellow and there's a few washes and and then the round of kind of, you know, painted in a non metal metal style again so. There's quite a bit I did that in one day. I did it in the morning. It was due in. So this is an idea of how.
CRAIG NORRIS
Really.
MARTY CLODE
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd actually did that and I think I did it within about 8 hours. It was, yeah, no. Tell a lie. I sculpted the the flashes the night before I painted it and sort of set it all. Up on those, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
The effect? It's remarkable. And given the time pressures you're under, it's well worth having a look at. So do check out Zangar Studios on Instagram. I'll make sure there are notes, links to that and showing notes. Marty, thanks so much for coming in and looking forward to.
Speaker
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Having you in more to finish the we've only asked you one question, I think.
MARTY CLODE
I have not even answered all the questions. I mean, I yeah, there's so many things we could go back to. For sure. So thanks a lot for having me. On it's been.
CRAIG NORRIS
Thank you.
MARTY CLODE
Been a pleasure. Yeah. Thanks Dave. Thanks.
CRAIG NORRIS
This has been media mothership. Keep listening, though, coming up next, we'll have K pop. Unlimited.
Speaker
Yeah.
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