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Craig Norris

5 days ago38 min read

Exploring Godzilla: Lesser-Known Facts and Cultural Impact

Episode 90 - With host Craig Norris and guest Ashley Remminga.

First Broadcast on Edge Radio, 15th November 2024.

In this week's episode, we are joined by PhD candidate Ashley Remminga to delve into the fascinating world of Godzilla. As we celebrate the 70th anniversary of the iconic monster's debut in the 1954 film "Gojira," we uncover lesser-known facts and intriguing commentary about Godzilla. Join us for an in-depth exploration of the legendary kaiju and its enduring impact on pop culture.

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TRANSCRIPT

This is an AI-generated transcript of the audio and it may contain errors. We may update or correct this transcript in the future. Please contact us if you have any questions about the information in this transcript. The audio is the official record of this episode.

Yes, yes. You're now listening to Edge Radio 99.3 FM, this is media mothership and as always, we're broadcasting out of Nepal, Luna, Hobart TAS, this is episode 90. We've made it now to nearly 100. And on media mothership, we explore how media can shape our understanding of the world around us. We're streaming on edgeradio.org dot AU and on. Hopefully YouTube and Twitch, you know, last week? Yeah. Last week it was just Twitch and YouTube did not synchronise. So we'll see. Feel free to post a comment in the chat of either YouTube or Twitch. I reckon we're still only on Twitch for some reason. So you can go check us out on Twitch at least. And I of course my my voice is belonging to me. Craig Norris joined today. My special guest again by back by popular demand.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Ohh I'm popular and I demand it. Ashley Rominger, from the University of Tasmania.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Nice. Nice to be here. Thank.

You wonderful and last time we had you on looking at cosplay and transmisogyny and kind of gender defining. Language. Yep. During the conversation after that show, I think we we got to talking about Godzilla. Yeah. And what more perfect timing than to do a bit of a deep dive into our experiences with Godzilla then. Now, because of course, at the start of the month, November the 3rd. It was Godzilla day. Yeah, right. So many people might not know out there that every. Year. On November 3rd, it's Godzilla day. Do you know why? It's November 3rd, Ashley.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

The release of the original Godzilla.

Smashed it? Yes, that's right. Back in November 3rd, 1954, the original Godzilla film came out. And of course, this year 2024 is significant because it's the 70th. Anniversary of that original film having been screened, so there was a little bit of online action commemorating that there were special screenings. I don't think there was anything locally in Hobart. Did you come across any Godzilla moments? I.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

No, I. Didn't hear but. I know the the big day. They usually have like a special showing where they make their own original suit fighting things and I think this year was a Part 2 if I'm. Not mistaken. Ohh so.

Yeah, I know there was a. There's been a couple of announcements when I was looking at Godzilla news around this time 1 was the. The director of Godzilla. 1 -, 1, -, 0, -, 1.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Yeah. I think -1 it's. What we should know this I know we.

Literally looked at this before we went. There as well.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Minus one. There we go. There it is. -1 is that he's. He's. He's confirmed. He'll be doing.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

A sequel? Yes, minus.

2 -, 2, and there was some. There's this big fan theories about the where the leaping off point could be, and he confirmed one of the fan theories being this. G cell idea that the you know the. The female companion of the main character. What's the name? Who we think dies. But then Moss? Well, no, no.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

No, wait, no, not godzillas.

Human survivor that we think gets killed? Yes. Spoiler alert. Turns out the final scene doesn't. And but she has a black mark and the the director has confirmed that this is linked to this idea of G cells, which now people going crazy about because they're linking this to Godzilla monsters in the past or cage you in the past that have been derived from Godzilla's. Cells, right? So Biollante and Space council. Yeah, so some some discussion about the next Godzilla film from. Man, this is not the US godzillas the Japanese one. Maybe bringing back my Lante.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

I'm I hope so. It's been too long.

The. By Atlantis with I mean. You were. We were talking off air about some of the research we did before today and you mentioned looking at the derivation of some of these monsters. Yes. Can you, did you look into biollante?

ASHLEY REMMINGA

It's a lot about genetic engineering. I mean, a lot of. Their origins also helps with understanding where they're from, but for Biollante it was very much from a lot of genetic engineering and modification, and the fear associated with that. And that's where it sort of came from.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. So that the because the I guess in universe narrative is that a a mad scientist is bereaved at the loss of his daughter, splices together his daughter cells are rose or something or of flower and Godzilla. And creates Violante and of course, yeah, right. That's in conversation, because I'm sure around that time this would be late 80s, early 90s, I would say. Or 90s, right? This would have been that moment, I think. Yeah. I think it would have been in the 80s because it's swapped over late 1798. Yeah. So it would have been 80s. And I think the design was was fan based, right. They they put out a competition for fans to create the design. I'm pretty sure it was by Lante, which was come up.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

I didn't know this.

Now. Which was. Originated from a fan design which the studios had asked for people to submit their design ideas, and I'm pretty sure it's by Atlanti you can correct us in the comments. I'm going to make deliberate mistakes, probably to actually get some comments happening. All right.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Yeah, Godzilla dies in every single movie.

Or interestingly, yeah, I mean. I remember going to back in, I was doing some research on Godzilla tourism. I read an article back in 2012 which I I mentioned is no longer no longer on the Internet. So it was in the Great University of Melbourne's academic publication refractory. And I thought, oh, dig it up and I'll promote it in today's discussion and it's gone. But refractory journal seems to have disappeared. Again. SMS US on 0488811707. If you're a huge. Refractory academic fan let us know where the archive is. Yeah, media.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Or if you're a lost media fan, you know this is lost media go looking.

For it Internet archive man, where are you? So it's not there. So I put it up on my blog so you can check it out on media mothership now. And it was a research project I'd done. Looking at kind of taking some of Matt Hills ideas with cult media geographies where he had done research on X files fans going to try and locate the shooting locations and locations for XY codes and what he found was they were replicating the narrative of X files. The detective work they were doing was like a character, Fox Moulder, Dana Scully from Xfiles. So I was doing a similar type of pilgrimage, an interview with Godzilla fans back in 2011 and 12. So this was before it became bigger again, before the gardeners stuff. And so forth. He was the director, right? Garth Innes. Garth something. Brooks, I can't remember. Anyway, the guy, the American relaunch of Godzilla. And so I I went back in there and I found Godzilla's deaths. Location. So in Ginza.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

There was a smaller Godzilla statue. There's a much bigger one there now, but there was a smaller one back then, which commemorates in a tombstone like fashion. The death location of Godzilla from Godzilla destroyer. This destroyer one where he gets completely. So Godzilla does die, and you can do a kind of dot tourism to that to that site and.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Well, the the one when you mentioned tourism is in Shinjuku with the the giant building with Godzilla peering over the top. That's amazing.

Right. So this is. To her cinemas so they have a fantastic multi level. Hotel accommodation, cinema complex. There you go up to the top. It's well worth a pilgrimage. Every time I've done it. You've done justly. Yeah, quite a few times. And on the hour it roars. Right. I'm sure it's only during working hours. So raw. So you're up at the top and you'll see a explosion.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Of steam come out and lighting effect. As Godzilla roars in the hour each hour, it is fantastic and there's a cafe you can get some Godzilla themed desserts and yeah it's it's it's a it's a fun experience because yes, we've got a life sized Godzilla head. Of course on top of the the Hotel Cinema complex. So yes, that's that's a new Godzilla pilgrimage to make. And you can get Godzilla rooms, which I've never been able to pull off. They've always been busy and yeah.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

I I've gotta do this. I've got to do this.

You know, it's worth doing, I've been told. The photos look fantastic, so yes, so we're going to deep dive into some of these pilgrimage experiences we've had as we've travelled to Japan. And our own experiences as lifelong Godzilla fans and and why it's significance, why it's a kind of useful. Character to unpack, but what we'll start with. Well, we're trying to think of ways to start and one one way we're gonna start is is is just by dipping into some sound effects. Kind of facts about Godzilla. So these this is from. Cinefex and it's there 7 Godzilla facts that will make you the king of the cages. This came out 10 years ago, right? So this must have been during the you got.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Yeah, just as the monster verse. Yeah.

U.S. consulate films. So a lot of it will probably be speaking back to those earlier Japanese Godzilla films. We'll we'll find out. So what we'll do is we'll we'll pause it and we'll unpack from our own skills and knowledge, whether this is a significant Godzilla fact and if there's more, more behind it than they're saying.

Godzilla's iconic roar is one of the most. Recognisable sound effects in the history of movies, but most people don't know how the original Godzilla film makers actually achieve the sound.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

I've heard this story, but I cannot remember it. OK, this is this is. Going to be like do I? Remember it as I.

Listen on because, look, I mean, it was fascinating the the Foley sound moment where people deconstruct or they they reveal the curtain behind the magic of cinema and they say, you know, this was actually the watermelon and the sound of a Waterman. So what we're going to hear. Here, of course, we heard there the, the, the. Schedule role. And the reality of how it was put together, of course has. Nothing to do with. I think maybe they did. It would be interesting to see if they refer to a real animal here. I know the main objects they use are not at all organic.

Was created by rubbing a resin coated glove on the strings of a double bass. They then took the resulting sound and manipulated it in an echo chamber. Hey, film makers an easier way to get that exact same sound.

Yeah, yeah. So. So say it's a cello and a leather glove soaked in resin, which seems to be a. Really. Kind of weird, but necessary. And and then an echo chamber to create that sound here again.

Yes, that's the cello with a.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Glove. It's incredible. It's like that story with Howl's moving Castle, with making the sound for that, but it was much different where they were just like, go in a room to a bunch of tradies and do your. Thing, so yeah.

Howl's moving Castle has this as.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Its effect? Yeah. So they just go to a bunch of trades and say, go in there and do your thing and they just use that to make the sound effects. So.

Because of course. Yeah. Cause what you need is a sound, particularly for. I guess the Godzilla Roar we're setting up this idea of distraction. Terror. You don't normally associate. Mainly are cellos and gloves with it but.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

I'm sure if you're a cello player you would think rubbing like resin on it would be like the most evil thing ever. Most destructive way of treating your cello so.

That is actually quite point. That's a good point. The destructiveness of that. All right. So the next fact that they'll discuss.

Let's get into our second thing that you. Didn't know today. Toho, the Japanese studio that created Godzilla originally, wanted to create the monster using stop motion animation. That's the technique that had been used in King Kong 29 years earlier here in the US, and Soho figured, hey, it worked out pretty well for those guys, but Godzilla simply didn't have the budget for that. Instead, they went with the now classic method of putting a guy in a suit. And having him destroy miniature buildings and cities. They even came up with a. Name for this method suit now. Putting a guy in a rubber monster who may seem cheesy to us now, especially once Godzilla started doing stuff like this. But.

Of course, yes. The simulation stuff is really interesting, particularly the scene. Unfortunately, the people that are watching it can't see it. The scene where Godzilla dances in it, which yes, I mean, that's that point at which Godzilla is becoming a children's character. Almost. Never kind of convinces me, but it is interesting that they decided to go for Suit Nation rather than claymation.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

I even though it's cheaper, I think it looks way better than the stop motion. I think it just looks so much more. I I hate to say it but realistic and just. It it looks smoother and everything, I think that's what really is so good about the the suits is that it looks a lot more organic than this. Like stop motion, jittery movement.

And I wonder. If part of that is also the kind of at a very human level, we we know it's. Someone destroying right? So that idea that it vicariously makes us enjoy the destruction we see. Because it's it's it's a, it's a. It's a. It's a real body in there and these are real miniatures that are then getting trodden on and you know, I mean, most people, when they talk about, if they if they made model aeroplanes as a kid about, then the destruction of those models they would make. And I think there is something that.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

There, there's that therapeutic. I think it's Buddhist, sort of like teaching, where you build something and then you destroy it and it's like meant to be like therapeutic in that sense.

Capsules. I could definitely. Yeah. Someone that that collects too much crap. I I I'm. I'm absolutely convinced. At the liberating power of letting go of possessions, what is it they say you're possessed by your possessions. So I do think that, yeah, sometimes the destructiveness of Godzilla and the smashing Ness of it can be very liberating. So and it has become distinct. I remember before the. South Park creators did the team America puppet nation? Yeah, they were talking about doing a suit Nation piece in. Said.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

I would love to see them come back now and do that because I I think they're that that would be really interesting to see from them.

Because I'm I'm, I'm pretty sure all of the modern versions of Godzilla have been CG that that suitmation aspect for it isn't there well. I mean, it could be like an Andy Serkis thing where it's modelled on a human performance that then CV.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

They they. Because the Shingon Zilla had partial and it like it wasn't a person necessarily in a suit, but they built actual like tails and things like that, but I think.

So kind of like Andy Serkis with Gollum and the performance he gave where it was a human performance that then was captured and digitised. Yeah. So it still has that, that idea of of performativity. And and expressiveness and acting, yeah.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

But I I think I think we, I I wouldn't be surprised if we do see a bit more going back a bit because especially like with Marvel recently and their latest work being a lot more grounded in actual building, the sets and everything. I could definitely see some of Godzilla. Going forward to be a lot more. I guess hand built almost and that a lot more practical effects rather than all CG, because I think everyone who's seen all CG if you don't give them the time and the budget which blows out to be so much, it doesn't look real or doesn't look good. So whereas this looks amazing, some of the the older stuff.

So let's see, #3, I think it's the actor. That played Godzilla.

As long as we're talking about Godzilla actually being just some guy in a suit, you might as well know that in the original film from 1954, there were actually 2 actors who took turns in the Godzilla suit. Their names were Haruo Nakajima and Katsumi Tezuka, and even though both guys are uncredited in the film's credit sequence, they both appear in the film briefly as actual human dudes. That's not Kojima right there, and there's Tezuka now. If you're such a Godzilla geek that you actually know which guy is the one in the Godzilla suit in any given scene with the monster, congratulations on being king. I guess.

It's funny, they mentioned the Godzilla actors because one of the things that got me into looking at Godzilla as a as a research piece was an article we'll play or a video clip will play later on from Japan Orama. And they bring in some of the Godzilla actors to perform a Godzilla destruction. Mean to help this local town city planner pitch his town to Toho Cinemas. So the idea of the actors and I think it's one of these things where, yeah, at the time the film came out, much like with, I guess, Frankenstein and Boris Karloff, Boris Karloff, uncredited in the original Frankenstein film in the 1930s. But since became like a legend in horror, Boris Karloff can't be kind of removed from Frankenstein. Similarly, with Godzilla, right? I mean, I think those actors that performed in the suits. I wonder how much of A celebrity they are, or if they're still unknown. It seems here they are unknown in terms of in the original. Film they weren't.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Ohh I've I've heard their names throughout and I know they pop up here and there and some do multiple series so I think.

You'd have to be a.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Fan, though yeah, you would have to be. But then again, like you know, I I guess if you're a real fan of Godzilla and looking at it that deep like maybe us, you know, we're not necessarily the most. I'm saying this in a nice way. I mean, we're a bit more removed than the general population.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

From enjoying Godzilla. So yeah, I think you're right. You're probably wouldn't know who they are.

I mean, if you went to a fan convention for Godzilla, and the suit actor was there, it would be fascinating. I mean. That would be amazing to have and reveal, but it is a case of all of these masked villains. I mean, if you're thinking everything from Jason, from the Friday the 13th films with the hockey mask. The Michael Myers killer from Halloween with the Captain Kirk mask, all of these masked performances, the guys in the suits are unknown, but then later on we'll have this second life within fandom and fan conventions where they'll be talking. About the experience. They'll be DVD features, they will have always been. Correct. Recognised. I mean, even I mean it's.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Interesting. I think FIFA vendetta, where they actually never did reveal who it was, and there's still that sort of room.

I think it was always going to be Hugo weaving, right? I think everyone.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Right. Yeah. I I think Hugo Weaving did the voice, but I don't know if we ever found out who actually played.

You didn't. I just assumed it was you. Go where?

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Yeah. No, I I I'm pretty sure it was FIFA vendetta. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure there was the voice and the actor were different people. Fact Check me. Fact Check me.

You buy the mask. Well, message us in the chat there.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

But yeah, I I think I think we never found out who was in. And there's theories around who it could have been.

So because it is one of those pathways that that could be appealing to people to get a job, you you perform as a, as an extra in a film and within that space, if you're a stunt person, obviously more likely to be a villain character and you know it. Recognition of it, I mean it. It does feel like a really deep cut in terms of being able to know the actors that played these performances, and I think they're unrecognised. I mean, I think Andy Serkis and the challenge he had not being awarded for his performances goal. In the Academy Awards that there was number category in those Academy Awards when the First Lord of the Rings Film came out to recognise actors that weren't performing as their, you know, bodies I guess but were performing as CG versions of those bodies, that's since been changed. I think there's now recognition for actors that are performing in these types of roles.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

When honestly, it should be like best actor like some of these people like the stuff they do in these suits are utterly insane. Like they're they're better than most of these actors. They may not have any lines. Like the the way they move their bodies.

Ohh yeah look, I mean, yeah, you gotta be convinced if you're watching Godzilla. You gotta believe in Godzilla. And if the guy in the Godzilla suit This is why that scene of him dancing in, like, the story of monsters or whichever one it was from the 1960s just takes me out of the Godzilla. You.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Yeah. Know it does, but then I I was watching Godzilla.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

The 198451 the other day, the first one in the Heisei era. And I was like, whoa, this really like, I can feel Godzilla. I know it's a guy in the suit, but gosh, this guy is incredible. Like, for just throwing you in and that so.

Yeah, yeah. If if you can do a great performance and go do it, I. Think it? Yeah. Underappreciated act. So I think. Yeah. Interesting fact. Glad they. Included the Godzilla actors. Let's see what number 4 is.

After the first. Mozilla was such a smash hit. Haruo Nakajima went on to play the monster all the way up to 1972's Godzilla versus Gigan. He did share Suit Nation duty with Katsumi Tezuka and a couple other guys on a few sequels here and there, but Nakajima was definitely the Godzilla guy for almost 20 years. He's like the Jim Henson of Godzilla. I have no idea. What that means? Good. But damn 20 years.

Yeah. OK. Yeah. So good credit to go to a performance and again, it would be interesting in Japan because I know one of the things that's so fascinating about Japan is the recognition given to performances which are reasonably unheralded in the West. So voice actors, for instance, having celebrity status, some of the really great.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Voice actors in Japan having so much more kind of status than in the.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

West, even like amateur idols, and that as well. So like, there's that sort of fandom and fan participation and appreciation that we don't necessarily give to. These really talented individuals.

Here. Yeah. So I wonder if in Japan there's more. I I, I still think it's probably not recognised I. Didn't feel like the. Godzilla suits stuff, and it seems like the recognition of voice actors is. It says like it's slightly more contemporary phenomenon than 1950s, sixties Godzilla suit performers. I kind of feel like that would still have been considered trash culture. Ohh. Absolutely, yeah. All right, well, it's #5.

The first Godzilla suit weighed over 200 lbs, and it was so hot inside the draining a cup of nakajima's sweat from inside the suit was just another day at the office. He also fainted inside the suit several times. Nakajima says. He. Even lost 20 lbs by the end of the shoot for the first film. Lucky for Nakajima, they improved on the. Suits with each. Movie. Most people don't know that up until 1984, each suit was made from scratch, and with each reconstruction the design changed slightly, making Godzilla look different from film to film, which wasn't always a good.

Yeah, I've heard that that the Godzilla suits are different. And when they've recycled the suits like I think in Godzilla, the first Godzilla versus mecha Godzilla 1. It's it's, it's. Really crappy suit, right? That that it's showing all the wear and tear that the suits just don't really survive the end of the.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Yeah, they're, they're breaking down at the moment and they're just falling apart the the latex used to make them are just degrading by now. So they're like, yeah.

Certainly as collectibles. Yeah, I'd imagine those suits are. Yeah. You know, you can't preserve them. Really. The the material just just does.

Right. And yeah, I've I've heard that the the performance in these suits is just diabolical the.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Further proofs why they deserve more recognition.

Indeed, yes. Yes, it's. I mean it's it. It does excite the childish imagination to dress up as Godzilla. But yeah, I mean, to actually pull it off those Godzilla suits I have seen, like at the when I was at Dragon Con, there was a full Godzilla cosplayer on the. The parade, the outdoor parade, they did, and he didn't like like you had to do a whole lap of the city in that Godzilla suit. He was him and Ultra man performance, I think Ultraman had it easier. Yeah, well, yeah. Godzilla suit.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

I mean, if you're dressed up like Ultraman, though, maybe maybe the Godzilla guy has it slightly easier.

It sounds. I have seen when I went to see when I was living in Shibuya, I went to see the the premiere of Godzilla versus Miros in the late 90s and and there they had a Godzilla suit machine performer come out as part of the they had some of the cast and they had this guy.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

This was Godzilla, and they had a assume. It was a fire extinguisher in the suit because at certain points he'd be jettisoning out what looked like fire extinguisher kind of thing. But that yeah, not easy. No. All right, number six.

We can all agree that as Godzilla got more and more sequels and even an animated show. It got pretty stupid, especially when compared to the serious political nature of the original movie. That's right, the first Godzilla was actually about real issues. Y'all what you may not know is it was actually nominated for Best Picture at the Japanese Movie Association Awards in 1954, which was basically the Japanese. The film lost to seven samurai, but it did win for special effects. The first Godzilla was the only one to ever be nominated for Best Picture, which is no surprise when you look at the later movies. Cause I mean, what the **** is this?

Godzilla says that I should learn to fight my own battles.

It's also more evidence of too many sequels often being the worst thing that can happen. To a good movie.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, there's a lot there. So I guess the argument here is. You know Godzilla in the 70s and 80s developed a reputation in Japan and the West as being kind of just for kids and being very dumbed down entertainment. But the first Godzilla film was was really sober and serious. What's your feeling of that characterization? I.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

I understand what they're saying, and I definitely think especially the shower era got very cheesy towards the end. But there's also, like so much representation of what the characters. Each of the different charges represent and some of the themes in even these, quote unquote stupid or silly ones, they're. There, there's a lot of like meanings that you can get out of the particular stories, whether it's like, you know, religious fanaticism or political discourse, space exploration, and the fear of the unknown. You get so much out of them through what the other charges represent. And this overarching theme of. Godzilla is still the worst because Godzilla represents, you know, all this negativity of nuclear destruction and everything. So.

Yeah, I agree. Certainly the initial films inception and the conversation it's having with World War 2, which is still then only what, nine years previous from that film coming out and the the fact that there was what the, you know, the the classic story going on that. Not only had King Kong been released years before, which was a source of inspiration, but there was the case of the something Drag Lucky Dragon boat, which got caught up in a nuclear testing and some of the.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Sailors was sick, so the idea of nuclear fallout still affecting Japan and causing death and suffering is is is very much on in, in, in conversation. I think there's even that famous scene in the 54 Godzilla where you have Godzilla is rampaging through Ginza and the buildings are collapsing. Around people and they have this really sober scene of the mother and child saying you. So. It'll be OK soon. We'll be with your father as. Yeah, it's strongly implicated. They die in the crushed wolves that Godzilla just burst through from. So again, that that conversation with the Father we assume had been killed in the war as a soldier. So this this. Yeah.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Well, the the 85 one which is the first of the hasay, so the the second lot of godzillas, it starts off with them on a boat and that with Godzilla coming and most of the crew die from radiation. So there's that direct parallels to to the story.

Yeah. A real world. So the but I. Yeah, again, I always love you know, again the cliche being the French discovering within Jerry Lewis film something redeeming. I do love redeeming trash culture. And I do think the well building that's going on in those very cheesy 70s Godzilla films. Are full of of, of real interesting creativity and the monster designs that are occurring. The kind of team ups which are getting developed. You know you've got King Ghidora, the three headed Golden Dragon being yeah geigen the kind of robot chicken.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

It it's it's he looks way cooler than what he what we're making out being a robot chicken. Yeah.

City. Yeah, there's some really, really fascinating conversations and setting up around the ideas of popular culture within Godzilla and also, yeah, the the the fact that all these films involve the destruction of recognisable landmarks in Japan, this, this, this fascinating.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Destructiveness of these locations. Yeah, I think really, really has some weight to it. Always that that kind of once you're starting to destroy it, there's always something. Kind of, you know, tragic within that. I mean, the human being plot stories, I think always always struggle. So it's interesting here at the moment there's nothing about the human actors. In conversation with these godzillas texts, so it will. Let's see if the final one, Godzilla fact #7 develops anything unusual.

We've been talking about Godzilla a lot, but we haven't really talked about Godzilla like the actual word Godzilla. I'm doing air quotes around. No, wait. You can't see that. Never mind. See Godzilla? Or Gojira in Japanese has a couple different rumours floating around as to how he got his name. As far as we can tell, this is the real story. The original film makers imagined a monster that was a combination of a gorilla, sort of like King Kong. Whale the Japanese word for gorilla is Gaura and the word for a whale is Kujira Gurira plus Kujira led them to Gojira, which in. 50S transliteration from Japanese to English became Godzilla, even though the final design for the monster doesn't resemble a gorilla or a whale, they kept the name because they liked it, so Godzilla's iconic name is really just the result of happenstance. And dumb luck. Cute story. Happenstance and dumb luck are also how we came up with the name cinefix. I'm kidding. We used a dartboard. That's it for.

OK, Godzilla name. I know this is a classic kind of. You know, so many different stories around it. What stories?

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Have you heard? I I've heard that one. And that one is the the main one that I've I've heard. Yeah.

Gorilla. Cojita. I think it's the one. It's the nicest one in terms of it tells the best. Story of it. That it's the combination of these two. Yeah, kind of. Clearly powerful. Entities, right? A gorilla. The goal from Gogeta, go gorilla and then call Jada the the Whale. And it seems reasonable enough. But you know, The thing is that the thing that that it comes down to is that there's no agreement even the original production team dispute that that's the origin. Some people in that original production team saying it was the nickname of one of the Gophers or people working on sets. His nickname was Gojira. So it's it's it's. Yes. I think it's a bit of the magic of movie telling that that they've chosen this as the the best story to go ahead. I kind of suspect that the story is probably lame, like the original story is kind of lame.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Yeah, well. I if I I'm almost certain it probably is because I remember the reading that the first interpretation of Godzilla wasn't even going to be this, like dinosaur reptilian creature, but going to be a. Squid. So yeah.

Yes, yes, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. There were various other original design sketches for. Jitter and you know. And look, I think the Godzilla, Godzilla names really interesting then developing into that English term. Godzilla. Right. I again, that in itself being such a powerful name that's come kind of in conversation with that Japanese Gojira into Godzilla is is. Again, it just seems so perfect now. Looking back on it, it is one of those lucky names. I think that has been bequeathed to this to this genre.

So there's the.

7 Godzilla facts I thought the supination stuff was the most interesting.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

I yeah, I think definitely. Just the sheer fact we never get to speak about their experience and all the difficulties they go through. It's sort. Of I guess presents how impressive they really are for what they they.

Do well, three years later. Well, sorry. Three years ago. So this is 7 years after the top seven list. Cineplex then does another list. The repeats some of them, but I do want to jump on some of the new ones that they've got here, so they do the Godzilla rubber costumes, the heavy suit. Again, Godzilla's new job. I'm wondering if this because I haven't seen this yet. I'm wondering if this is the notorious moment he became. Team. Japans ambassador. Ohh yes, I hope it is that if not we need to discuss that and for me the most interesting thing about the Japan Ambassador thing was I was working with a colleague, Kuichi Obuchi back at the University of Western Sydney and he he later wrote this. Article critiquing. Japan soft power and in particular pointing to the example of the kind of trivialization of citizenship in Japan by councils and prefectures, awarding honorary citizenships to fictional characters and saying it's so on the nose that Japan. Struggles to give. Citizenship to Zainichi and you know Korean born Japanese yet is more than happy to throw away citizenship as this promotional exercise for Godzilla, and we'll see if that's where it's going. And we'll do a bit of, yeah, politics of identity on it. So this is Godzilla's new job.

With his imposing stature, menacing roar and devastating atomic breath, Godzilla might not immediately strike you as the most welcoming guy. However, his long and illustrious career as a Japanese movie icon, albeit a dangerous and frequently incredibly destructive, 1 managed to land him official citizenship and tourism ambassador status in Shinjuku.

And around his 61st birthday in 2016, with those titles came some interesting new job responsibilities for Godzilla, including promoting the entertainment of and watching over the kabuki show neighbourhood, and also. Drawing visitors from around the globe in the form of the Godzilla head built atop the Shinjuku Toho building, yes, there is now literally a gigantic Godzilla statue at the Hotel Gracery in Shinjuku, presiding high over the city, occasionally with glowing red eyes or smoke coming from his mouth. Which is why you've never seen a real life. Mothra attack Japan. She's too scared. So Congrats on becoming a citizen. Godzilla. Now. Can you stop wrecking the? Place.

There we go. Yeah. So indeed, it was the Godzilla citizenship. I mean, there's so much to say about that. I automatically think, you know what popular culture characters could Australia give citizenship for? And how could that fail?

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Probably, probably Bluey is our best shot. Maybe Blinky bill.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. See. Blinky bill. Well, I think you know, because of its sitting, I'd be fascinated to see if there's some kind of racial politics that don't translate nicely. Like is the 1940s Blinky bill. Bill come out right. I kind of feel like Blinky bill could do this white Australia, Blinky. Bill, right. It's kind of.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

That yeah, that I could see.

That, yeah, yeah. If you were doing a kind of retirement. Village of Australian pop culture characters Blinky Bill. I kind of feel from the era that he was generated in would be a bit of.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

A white strain. My my next thought was Nicky Webster and then I went. Wait, no. Nicky Webster's a real person. I was just thinking like, what was that pop culture like early 2000, like, this symbol of stuff. I was like, Olympics. And then I just went straight to Nikki Webster, so.

But OK, so in this case this is indeed the notorious case of Godzilla getting citizenship. And for me, yeah, it was interesting at the time. I was thinking, OK. This is a very savvy. Called Japan move from you know, Shinjuku Prefecture. They're just invested all this money on the new Toho hotel. Cinema complex. And so Godzilla symbolically is going to be this one, is he? He's he's he got citizenships, who's a Japanese citizen, which is weird, isn't it? I.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Mean I I thought they've spent the last, like, 40. Well, 70 years now trying to get Godzilla out of Japan.

Katran. Yeah. Yeah, I. And then, of course, tourist ambassador, which which makes some sense in terms of certainly in terms of a a literal sense, yes, there's a lot of branding that links.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Yeah. If you look around, they've got, like Chibi Godzilla everywhere. I don't have my. My other laptop has a chibi gadora on it, and yeah.

I even think when The Simpsons did a parody episode where they go to Japan, there's a joke at the end where they're flying off and Godzilla's there. Yeah, destroying. UM, so yeah, it's it's a bit cliche. There is this an example though of cause the the date for that was what 2016? I think that was announced that citizenship and and so we're talking there about where soft power like where the fandom Western fandom. For Japan coming and I wanna say at least 16 years earlier than that. You know that that kind of late 90s period where you had or even 80s. I I mean, as with, I mean I. Put it as. A carer or these texts, which which became distinctly Japanese, being that that first wave there were, you know, monkey magic beforehand. I mean, this is arbucci's argument that really Japanese popular culture as an identity. Was actively downplayed by the Japanese entertainment industry through this mukoko Seki idea that they were not seeing a kind of uniquely Japanese body or language as globally saleable. So instead it was Astro boy. It was anything that could get dubbed. And really being engaged with. Out of anywhere, right? You wouldn't really know. Asteroids, Japanese.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Yeah. When? When you thought of Japan, you thought of like refrigerators and cars and this sort of like electronic devices for tech and that and so Akihabara was very much all like transistor radios and everything. And now it's all anime figures and.

It's difficult to remember this because now anime and this animation Astro boy and so forth are so inherently seen as Japanese. It's difficult to remember.

What it was like, you know, watching Japanese cultural content before the mid 90s, right before it was actively permitted.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

I I think it it went even further. I I I don't think people even fully understood outside small communities that started seeing us cool until probably even around 2010 when the Internet was really growing because I remember growing up and not knowing the difference of. Where like Pokémon came from versus, you know, any other show that was airing at that time. I just thought, oh, it's a cartoon. It's made in cartoon land so.

Yeah, look, and when I was doing my PhD in 96 on that early communities adaption of that that I guess you know later wave of anime. A cure? On there were still many participants I'd interview who were saying, you know, their parents were the children of of of the World War Two generation. And Japan just wasn't talked about at home, right? No.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Ohh yeah, no I my my grandma still was like ohh I'm. I'm not sure because she lived through World War 2. But like you know I'm researching.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

So there was a a really.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Yeah, generational trauma, generational shifts and identity.

So there was quite a stigma, I think attached to. So you know I I I do think part of the yeah. And Godzilla is an interesting counterpoint to this, though, because Koichi's argument is that, you know, all of this, the reason why animation video games were so actively promoted and Japan became the globally leading producer animation in the 80s or 70s and 80s. Was because it was an easy text to globalise and didn't have what they saw as a cultural discount of of, of japaneseness. But then you look at monkey Magic and Godzilla, both of which have distinctly Japanese settings. Well, China for monkey magic, filmed in Japan. And of course, Godzilla. They're filmed in Japan with Japanese actors. It is. It is, if not in spoken words. Very Japanese, yet did become popular outside of that. And samurai like there was that samurai series from the 70s.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Yeah. The one that Pete Godzilla as well.

Beat Godzilla. I haven't heard this.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Oh no, the, the one that we're discussing before samurai, I forgot the name, but the one that beat Godzilla for the award that it was nominated for, that was another one that. Yeah.

Ohh right. Yes, right, right, right. The seven samurai. Yeah, of course. Elephant, right?

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Yes, thank you for remembering. What we've just played all this very.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Well, clearly not well.

So the samurai motif and a kind of idea in Japan. Well, you also had most interestingly, Shogun in the mid 70s.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

And now back again, winning all the awards.

Yeah. So for many people, of course, in the mid 70s, that first falling in love with Japan was from reading James Clavell. Was 1970s book Shogun. Interestingly, James Clavell, himself a survivor POW survivor from World War 2, from Japanese torture. So again, there's this amazing convergence of these kind of, you know, don't mention the war. Don't mention that that that. Asked yet, he wrote one of the books, which for many people was why they fell in love with Japan in the 70s. And, as you're saying, was remade recently as a Netflix series which has gone on to equal acclaim, has brought a new generation into that. Kind of samurai interest.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Yeah. I I just think it's a bit late for them to be making Godzilla an ambassador because I don't know if Godzilla has the the level of cool the some of the like anime and idols. I think I think maybe Godzilla needs to form an idol group.

An interesting time 2016 because again, this was before the Western adaptations became popular.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Oh yeah, yeah, so.

So 2016. Such an interesting moment in Godzilla, because there hadn't been really any new Godzilla made. Yeah, many years it had just been ticking over with that kind of fan interest. So it is fascinating that they choose this rather old nostalgic figure rather than an anime figure that would have been big in 2016.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Well, I still, frank, need to see Godzilla do an idol dance and performance like full rubber suit.

Probably. Has be careful, probably has.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Anyone listening? Please send it to.

Well, I guess this is. Us. Yeah. And I guess this is what you're saying, that that really is this a moment of selling out, right, that Godzilla, instead of being a disruptive. Right. That initial Godzilla object in 54 would have been so interesting because part of it, while it was nominated for an Academy Award Japanese Academy Award, which does indicate that it wasn't considered trash culture at that time. It was was celebrated as serious movie making. Nevertheless, you know, I think Godzilla would have been. A divisive thing, right? Some parents would have seen it as just trash, particularly when he became more kind of commercial and mainstream. As well as it being a kind of a menacing, villainous character. So I think it is interesting that that, yeah, you could say quite rightly it it's it's an indication of the Co option of Godzilla, the selling out of Godzilla as a disruptive entity and into a kind of, you know, and you know given. Soft power had already been ticking over in Japan for at least 20 years. It's interesting. Yeah. How slow the wheels of. Governor to Co-op that in a way that makes them attempt.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

To look good? Well, that that goes further. More to the point that I disagreed with before with the not having any sort of meaning. If you watch Shin Godzilla, it's all about that sort of critique of the government and that during the. Fukushima. Yeah, sort of fallout with that and the the horror for horrifying earthquake and tsunami, the triple disaster.

And I think that would be a great contrast to make right the 2016 citizenship and Tourism Ambassador. Award to God. Version gods.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Well, they came out 2016, both of them.

Right at that time, right. Yeah.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Maybe that was the true reason they made Shin Godzilla was a critique of Godzilla getting ambassadorship.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they're two very radical, radically different interpretations. You know, in one case, the government Co opting it and and neutering it. And the other, you know, the kind of. The lampooning of the governments failure with Fushimi, a satire that's being done through Godzilla. Yeah, so?

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Clever. Any other thoughts? Well, here we go. So this is Godzilla versus Evangelion, which is linked to Shin Godzilla. Of course. Shin Godzilla was directed by Hideki Hideki. Hi. I know, I know, I know, I know. Yeah, from Evangelion fame. This is this. The pachinko. Right.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Game. Or is this because I know there was a pachinko game that launched that combined Evangelion and Godzilla and then and pojo is interesting just one aside before we get to it. The thing I find fascinating about the pachinko industry in. And it was a discussion I had with a friend that works at say, and he was saying that a lot of anime will make their initial budget for creating the series from a limited pachinko release of that title. Star Blazers, for instance, which is.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Did a special pachinko release where you could only watch these. These kind of you know few minutes of this new Yamato series they were planning to make through pachinko. And of course, pachinko is a kind of soft gambling, and you haven't spent a lot of money on them. And and through all the revenue that was made from these pachinko kind of slot machines, it was sufficient money to fund anime productions. I might be wrong with. No, I'm pretty sure.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

And and and we should mention, if you've got a gambling addiction that you should definitely there, there's a lot of help lines and you should definitely seek.

That's right. Help. Yes. Thank goodness. Pachinko's not here. Yes, I think we have enough issues. Let's we've got about 5 minutes left. OK, we've set up the Godzilla versus anyone, so we'll listen to this and have some final words.

Godzilla isn't the only towering, devastating force that has crushed Japanese cities to smithereens, and pop culture history. Of course, the massive robotic Eva units from Neon Genesis Evangelion have also been known to stomp through Skylines, fighting gigantic Nightmare Monsters. So what did these two franchises have in common? Well, a lot actually. 2016's Shin Godzilla was Co directed by Hideaki Anno and Shinji Higuchi, who had both previously collaborated on Evangelion. Plus, the film's music was composed by Evangelion composer Shiro Sagisu, who straight up remixed songs from Evangelion in shouldn't Godzilla. Additionally, the Universal Studios Japan theme park recently featured an Evangelion. Versus Godzilla 4D interactive ride, where audiences could be boots on the ground for a massive battle between Godzilla and an EDA. But and this is a bonus thing, if you'd rather see these two iconic Titans join forces on your desk instead of tearing each other apart at a theme park, feel free to drop $165 on this nearly 10 inch tall purple robot Godzilla snapped together model kit launching later this year. It's so cute and scary.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Nice. I'll be honest, I have thought about buying that.

So it's it's transmedia, right? I mean it's it's the kind of spinning off of the Godzilla and Evangelion properties into these kind of third texts. The was a theme park. CG ride that you can go on, which it does look cool. Or yeah, this this hybrid model kits of Mecha Godzilla in Evangelion. Colouring. Yeah, that does look cool. Don't don't buy it. Save your money. Well. You know, sadly, we haven't even dived into the media tourism part, so we'll have to have you back. Yeah, to, to dive into this further, any any final thoughts about Godzilla? What would you recommend people watch if they're looking for a Godzilla fix?

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Ah. It I would definitely recommend the original you. You can't go past the original but.

Because we do have, we do have some box sets here. We've got the Hasay and Showa Yep box sets that Mad Men released. Sadly, you were pointing out that they're no.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Longer available, please bring them back. Please bring them back if you. I know you listen to us, so please bring us.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Back, my bad. But yeah, I I'd probably recommend I love the hasay era, but the railway era is very accessible, whether it's Shin Godzilla, Godzilla -1, maybe you're into the monsterverse that's quite accessible out there. And the original, you can't go past. But yeah, if there's Godzilla has something for everyone. So if you watch a Godzilla and go, that was terrible. If you watch a different era, you might find exactly what you're after. So.

And there was one other I've just noticed that the the manga that you've. In this is a in the Kaiju world, so it's the giant monster. Well, what's the thing about this?

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Yeah. So so there's a number of manga series out there at the moment, actually publishing at the moment about kaijus like Kaiju #8, which is super popular, shown in jump series, but the one I have. Is Kajal caramelise.

Kaiju girl caramel.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

It is a super cute series. It's a it's a shojo romance series that focuses on a character that basically whenever her heart beats, she transforms into a Kaiju. So like Godzilla and destroys the town and it's all about her. Trying to deal with her, sort of her romantic feelings for understand her identity. And it's essentially like a magical girl show. But instead of transforming into a magical girl when her heart beats, she turns into Godzilla. So. It's, you know, it's a it's a story of love and romance and Godzilla. So what more could you?

Want so she's normal sized Kaiju girl characterised, but then she does become huge Kaiju.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Yeah. So she, I, I won't ruin the story, but you you find out around Volume 7 a bit more about her past, but it is super cute, but yeah, she's essentially just a normal. A schoolgirl who has a crush on this guy and whenever her heart beats too much, she transforms into a Kaiju, a Godzilla to destroy the town.

Why is caramelise the name of the character? No, it's caramelise.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

I think it's just meant to be like this. Sort of like cute Moy sort of, I I don't know the symbolism behind it, but it is. It's just a really sweet series and. It's it's, you know, it's a series. I think anyone of any age, you get characters that obviously this is very inspired by Godzilla. There's a character who cosplays different Kai Jews throughout, whether she's cosplaying the larvae of Mothra or the three headed Ghidorah. Yeah. And so she's.

Play has like. Thankfully to design.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Yeah, she's a fangirl of this Kaiju, and so she starts cosplaying these other Kaiju, but.

I'd love to have you back on one of the other spaces that I'm fascinated by is this mohair space, particularly young girls, transformed into.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Kind of militarised objects, you know, that kind of strike, which is kind of thing.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Yeah, strike witches. And there's girls on puns are.

Right, girls, with punter? Yes, this kind of.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Oh, and there was. The that battleship one as well.

Yeah, yeah. What is the can click? Can click? Yeah. It would be fascinating to look at this weird.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

I cannot that one I want. Yeah combo collection.

Because what would be the intended audience for Kaiju girl Caramelise? Is it young girls?

ASHLEY REMMINGA

It it would be, it would be a shojo romance. So definitely a sort of a young, sort of, I'd say it. It's not for, I guess, marketed towards masculine readers, but it is sort of that, you know, it's got that element that makes it a bit sany, but it's all symbolic in that.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

And I I absolutely adore this series and I. Group One day to be able to cosplay this series. Wow yeah. No, hopefully next time I could come on cosplay.

Ohh. Yeah. No, you heard it here that. Would be fantastic.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

No. No, gosh, I've set myself up too much.

We'll, we'll we'll set up a Kickstarter for that now. That's fascinating. All right, well, listen back into media motherships and future weeks where we'll deep dive into some other. Weird obscurities in Japanese pop culture, Ashley. It's been absolutely fantastic having.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

You on thanks for having me again.

If people want to find out more about what the work is you're doing, they can check it out on the Utah's.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

Website. Yep. And I've now finally migrating over to blue skies so you can find me on Ashley Rominger on blue skies. Blue Skies is a replacement of a particular social media network.

What is blue scones? You don't mean.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

That we won't name because, yeah, it's by the founder of what was known as Twitter basically recreated a site of his.

ASHLEY REMMINGA

But is not owned by a billionaire who is problematic at the moment. Yeah. So yeah, no, he's so it's. I'm migrating over there at the moment. So I'm setting up. That seems to be where all the academics are going. So I'm going.

Fascinating. There too good to know. All right. Well, we too will join that bandwagon. For medium mothership. So keep listening to Edge Radio coming out now. Some really cool tunes. And yeah, if you're bored this weekend, then do wack on some classic Godzilla or maybe check out Kaiju del Caramelise in manga form.

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