Episode 74 - With host Craig Norris, cohost Taylor Lidstone, and special guest MC Dent.
First Broadcast on Edge Radio, 24th May 2024.
We explore how Microsoft Copilot observes Minecraft players and provides constructive feedback, the recent acquisition of Intellivision by Atari, marking the end of the very first console war. We then share our insights on crafting an effective radio drama hook, revisiting our past endeavors in creating radio dramas and sketch interviews, with a discussion of the captivating 1940s series Suspense and its masterful use of hooks to captivate listeners. 🎙️📻
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Media Mothership's interview with chatGPT sketch
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TRANSCRIPT
This is an AI-generated transcript of the audio and it may contain errors. We may update or correct this transcript in the future. Please contact us if you have any questions about the information in this transcript. The audio is the official record of this episode.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
All right.
Speaker 3
OK.
CRAIG NORRIS
All right. Welcome to media about the ship. Here on Edge Radio studios Nipuna Hobart. Mania. Join us now as we will adventure into how media changes, understanding the world around us.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
I understand a lot after listening to this. Show. Yeah. Yes, thank.
CRAIG NORRIS
You cause I'm I'm the host with the most gosh, doctor Craig, PhD, joined by Lord Taylor.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Hmm. Be media be.
CRAIG NORRIS
Scotland's only media ones, yes, qualified, qualified for your media analysis. We're streaming on edgeradio.org dot AU and. Hopefully YouTube and Twitch, yes. YouTube and Twitch. In all hopes. Please shoot us a message if you hear you can hear us.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
In here.
CRAIG NORRIS
We're not sure. If the Audio's working on YouTube or Twitch.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Or anywhere actually.
CRAIG NORRIS
I'm pretty confident we're coming out in the FM system. Feel free to message in on and the S&S line, which is 0488. 8117. I keep forgetting that it's 888.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
04888 yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, so 0488811707. And we're also, of course, obviously broadcasting on DAB.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah. Yeah, which? We're we're a Tier 1 radio station that way or something, category one.
CRAIG NORRIS
Tier one, category, one region, whatever. So quite a big footprint on the digital radio. Today's topic is news, and then we're going to dive into two of our shows back from this time last year, so.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Well, recycling content.
CRAIG NORRIS
We are recycling content well, revisiting, revisiting classics. It's kind about because I've been listening to the learning Islands and Seth Meyers us do that, revisit our great content from the past. Hmm. So that's what we'll be doing on the 2nd.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Half of the. Show. Yeah, we'll be jumping off into new content through that old content. OK, so it is worth. Listening there'll be be whole new stuff. Just getting the SMS.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Lineback.
CRAIG NORRIS
Woken up. So keep chilling and enjoy this. We're going to. Start the news with this. Retro ad. So cool. Try to figure out what this retro ad. Is promoting selling? Yeah, here.
Speaker 6
You go. I'm about to show you something new. For in television that will revolutionise the way video games are played and compared. First, here's a popular Atari game. Now don't look. And here's new space.
CRAIG NORRIS
Do you know popular Atari game?
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
And then it sounded like space invaded.
CRAIG NORRIS
You sound like space providers.
Speaker 6
Spartans for the Intellivision module.
Speaker 1
Hello Commander, one is.
Speaker
Sure.
Speaker 6
New in televise now that in television folks, you can tell the. Difference with your eyes closed.
CRAIG NORRIS
In televise 1982. You know, yeah, AI foreigner. Really. I mean, I had the in television as a kid growing up, so instead of my parents getting the Atari game system in the early 80s, we got the competitor in television. So back then, it was kind of like beta versus VHS, Nintendo versus Sega. It was Atari.
Speaker 7
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Person television. We didn't get the Intel voice though. Which is probably. Why I am trying to make up for that now. With my use of Chachi, PG. Because I feel like I missed out on something. It is cute. I did like the intellichoice.
Speaker 8
No intelligent, no in television. Now that in television.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
So cool.
Speaker
Hi.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
What? What is this? I don't. I don't know what it is like actually functionally.
CRAIG NORRIS
Alright. Well, in television is like Atari game system. So basically the ad is about how.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Right. It's better than Atari, essentially.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes, because it has the Intel voice, my Intellivision, didn't. It's. Yeah. So it was the main competitor, but it was very much like beta. It never really got a market. People were saying it was better quality or more innovative console controller design. The controller looked like a a actually a an old Nokia phone, right.
Speaker 9
Yeah, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
With a a little disc that you'd use to move characters around, yeah.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Alright, OK, down the bottom.
CRAIG NORRIS
But yeah, yeah, it didn't take off like the Atari did. And and the the the reason why I started with this of course is the news from Engadget and. A couple of other sources. Showing that Atari now has just bought a television, putting an end to the very first console war. So it's a cute little article talking about how.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
OK.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, Atari, even though that itself is not the Atari from the 80s or late 70s, the the Atari today is, you know, had had gone out of business. The brand had been bought and then revitalised, I guess, revitalised. So Atari is not the Atari from the 80s, but nevertheless, the idea being that yeah, the, the the Atari as it exists today has acquired in television. Television actually had it turns out in this article, made some attempts to create hardware. Still its latest one was called the television. Amoco, which is considered to be an absolute failure because it it was basically from what I can understand, it was a. Mobile phone based system, right? It would use an app to pair either to iOS or Android devices. So you'd need 2 mobile phones. One would be the game screen and the other would be the controller, right? And it was considered.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Wow.
CRAIG NORRIS
Absolutely broken, right? It it. It was? Yeah. And unfortunately, yes, they announced it back in 28. I mean at it got some press release and some you know press were able to trial it. Yeah. And the feedback from Kotaku back in the day was one janky piece of crap.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Fair enough, yes.
CRAIG NORRIS
So yeah, so there you go. I I that was cute. The kind of, you know, Retro Ness of it, that the very first console war has this weird footnote today, that indeed, you know, Atari one, I guess, quote marks.
Speaker 1
Hmm.
CRAIG NORRIS
So yeah, wow. What was your first game?
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
System my first game system would have been a PS2.
CRAIG NORRIS
OK. Yeah. One of the biggest selling consoles, I mean game consoles and you know, I know I picked up the PS2 mainly for a cheap DVD player games were still crazy expensive. I looked back on some of the games that I still got even from EB games.
Speaker 1
Hmm.
CRAIG NORRIS
Price and it's like 40 bucks.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Back in the day, buying that kind of PS2 games just out just.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah, it it's most expensive game I've bought is was Final Fantasy 10. Which?
CRAIG NORRIS
The price tag off.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
128 and that was like back in 2008 or something like that. So it.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right. And yeah, you were stuck with physical media. There weren't really many competitors for the marketplace. It wasn't like you could easily import either. Say you're stuck with either buying a new off shelf, hoping for a discount, or wait for the second hand market, which would even yeah, 120. Half.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Was.
CRAIG NORRIS
Price is still. 60. Yeah. OK. So next next piece I'll play audio of this and we'll see if people can guess what's happening in this audio.
Speaker
Hey, copilot, how's it going?
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Hey copilot.
Speaker 9
It looks like you're about to dive into some. Minecraft. Yeah, I'm trying.
Speaker
To figure out how to make a sword.
Speaker 9
Craft a sword. You'll need some materials. Can you open your inventory? Just press E on your keyboard. You've got some sticks. Perfect for the storage handle. But it looks like you're missing the material for the blade. Let's start by gathering some wood or stone. Shall we head out and find some resources?
Speaker
Yeah, that sounds great.
CRAIG NORRIS
Great dude bro.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
What was the what?
CRAIG NORRIS
He visualising in the theatre of the mind what what was being. Talked about. It's copilot, which is what? That's windows, Microsoft's.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
AI system, yeah.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
It's just all of this stuff is people trying to. It AI close to Jarvis.
CRAIG NORRIS
From home, right? I'm. Yeah, I guess it does.
Speaker 7
I.
CRAIG NORRIS
Have that five, that's interesting point.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
It's just there. There's something inherently likeable about Jarvis and something that's inherently not likeable about this.
CRAIG NORRIS
It does sound I must. I agree it sounds so earnest in its delivery, and the guy that's talking to copilot is.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
You know, in, in, in relating to it in a way that seems so artificial in terms of it's clear that this is a promo piece. So indeed this is from Ars Technica. It's a piece titled Parasocial Gaming department, which might be there. I do like parasocial parasocial usually is attached to celebrities, right? People who develop parasocial relationships with.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Hobbies. In this case, I guess it's parasocial relationships with AI that you're engaged with for your gaming. So the headline is Microsoft Copilot will watch you play Minecraft, tell you what you're doing wrong. Wow, Microsoft Demo is like chatting with game FAQ's when you don't have a friend to hang with.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
This is so annoying. I hate this sort of stuff because like people are like touting this as great. A great thing that happens, but my best memories of playing computer games is having to go out and buy the official prima game. Go. Yeah. Going through that or or or or going into some sort of magazine and it says if you do down up XA.
CRAIG NORRIS
I guess the print big Bible thing like a textbook.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
He start, then that unlocks something.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah. Well, yeah, there is something about the hunter gatherer phenomena within gaming which can be really satisfying in terms of like that hunter gatherer phrase.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Hmm.
CRAIG NORRIS
You're you're hunting and gathering the information yourself by searching. It's the Internet.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Is that I'm together a phrase that's often used.
CRAIG NORRIS
Hey, I think it's a core theoretical. Concept from Henry Jenkins.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
OK.
CRAIG NORRIS
This should be some, you know, religious crossing and Jenkins. Lest we forget. Yeah. Hunt together. I think it's a very fannish activity, right? Part of the pleasure I think of of, of for some people of gain.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Thing is that initial learning curve they talk about in a couple of different.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Made from.
CRAIG NORRIS
Ways you know. Some of the best ways that that, like some people say Mario is a perfect game design, because that tutorial is occurring in game. It's not like you're pausing and it's saying, you know, you know, click up now. And you've jumped to to go forward, move the joystick to the right instead. It's like, you know, you, you kind of figure out that you gotta jump and then you get to a a jump, which is twice as.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Long as before.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
MMM.
CRAIG NORRIS
So you might die, but then you you press it twice. So yeah, I can jump twice as long, right? So it's that kind of as you play the game, the challenges occur, getting you to learn new skills. You could of course, go to an FAQ or something to also help you. Like, what do I keep dying in the pits? Right. How do I jump over as Mario.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Twice as long. But that's also, yeah. So I guess this.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Is when when you think of one of the best games ever created, which is obviously Pokémon, I mean it's spawned so many instances of it and all of that is all just about collectivism.
CRAIG NORRIS
Collectivism in terms of, you know, you've got to play with someone else. Get all the Pokémon, gotta catch them all.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Collection this season collection. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, exactly. If it was easy, it would be a.
CRAIG NORRIS
Terrible game. Yeah, look, and that's another core theory. Video game studies the idea that there's that balance between complexity and ease, right. That you want your gamer. It's like one of those kind of audio waves, right? For one theory of gaming is that your game should be going up and down between those two poles, but not too extremely. You don't want the game to all be complex with with no kind of ease or master.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Well, what about when it comes to things like?
CRAIG NORRIS
Portal, then portal or Dead Souls would you know, like a more complex game. Well, and again that I think that's part of the discourse around that. Some people.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah, yeah. And they're and most of those ones are well touted as being some of the best games.
CRAIG NORRIS
And I would say and.
Speaker 1
And never complain.
CRAIG NORRIS
There's a tutorial component within that right? And Dark Souls really interesting in terms of the deaths that you see, the ghostly kind of deaths that you can see around you. So, you know, even those, I would say are still abiding by some form of of, of wanting the gamer to feel mastery. At certain. And then requiring a learning Covic right. So here I guess with Microsoft Copilot it's interesting to consider. I mean it's it appeals to me on one level. It's like that scene in her with Scarlett Johansson, who's currently also it's a it's a movie where she's playing the AI, an early iteration of an AI that that's far advanced.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah, Cortana.
CRAIG NORRIS
Sort of. Which is the one which was taught to do the Nazi language.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Ohh it's got my name that's got my name. Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Like Skype, Taylor. Ohh well chosen name there. But anyway I do think that the it's interesting how the same without like the I guess is the tongue in cheek. Comment that you know if you don't have friends to hang. Not with you. You're kind of lucky in your AI to play with and in some ways that's cool, right? I mean, if you're, if you have social communication phobia, then great in a way, I I the novelty of it intrigues me. In terms of. I could quickly see it getting annoying like there are many games where there are like the Clippy.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
OK. Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Thing that pops up right could be, of course, the notorious assistant.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
From word right from Microsoft, which would pop up and say, oh, I see you're trying to write a. You know, love letter. Yeah. Here's the hook that you should develop. Your hook is really bad, so can be really irritating like that where the the AI is is forcing you to almost. With the game on Rails, it's like actually I'm just trying to discover things I don't want the equivalent of Clippy to tell me it looks like you're trying to craft something. You're complete failure at it so. Shall I help you? So yeah, I could see that finger over irritating. It's a cute concept. It'll be interesting to see if more and more of this occurs within gaming. And what's interesting is this. Copilot, I mean Microsoft owns Minecraft, so I'm assuming this feature is integrated because of that. Ownership, but it'll be interesting if yeah, if, if if the the copilots is is kind of engaged generally.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
It would be, yeah. Hmm. Which is so funny that they own it now. It's crazy because I like they gave everyone. What was it? Five years or something like that to switch from Java edition to Windows Edition. I never did. I don't have Minecraft anymore.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes. People still played Java, right? Well, here's here's the scene from her where the the movie 2013, which many people are saying this is evoking and trying to get to so.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
The movie 2030.
CRAIG NORRIS
You know, her was came out in 2013. Maybe 2012. Yeah, made that one. So we'll play. With a clip of this, this is what.
Speaker 10
Since we're not doing well, I've been going in circles for an hour.
CRAIG NORRIS
It's trying to get to.
Speaker 7
OK, you have not. You're just not being optimistic. You're being very stubborn right now. OK. Stop walking. This direction is the.
CRAIG NORRIS
So in this scene.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
So that's an AI the the woman speaking.
CRAIG NORRIS
Hanson's AI and walking phoenix.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
She sounds like a smoker. Yeah, nothing. She sounds like a smoker.
CRAIG NORRIS
Like in Phoenix, is is just playing like a. Kind of third person open world game avatars. Third person and they're in this kind of labyrinth dungeon. OK? And so she's trying to explain to him how to get out of this maze dungeon.
Speaker 7
OK.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yep.
Speaker 7
Thank you. Thank you. OK. The tunnel on the left is the only one we haven't. Right.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
No, I think that's the one you sent me. Now it's.
Speaker 7
On the pit. OK. I don't think so.
Speaker 1
Oh yeah, this is different.
CRAIG NORRIS
So yeah, I think that's what it's evoking that image of you'll be working with this kind of sentient AI or helpful AI. Yeah, look, I mean, it's none. It's not like this.
Speaker 8
New in television.
CRAIG NORRIS
I mean it's. You know, if we could get a voice setting for copilot. It's delivered in kind of really stilted way I.
Speaker 1
Hello, commander battle.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes. So now I just quickly want to dive into the topic for today, OK, which I want to revisit some of the other material we've made in the past and I want to play this section from a year ago.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Exactly a year ago.
CRAIG NORRIS
Well, this was I think this is 6th of May so.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
2023 yeah, 23.
CRAIG NORRIS
23.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Do you remember this intro music?
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah. You're going to turn it up. All right, today we have a very special guest who has found quite a lot of fame recently. Chant GPT. How are you going ChatGPT? Sorry, it wasn't screwed up the stops.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
What are you saying? Well, we are honoured to have you with us today, so GPT recently we've been hearing a lot in the news about. Well, how about you are one of the most advanced AI there's ever been. And given the discourse around the increasing. Possibility that AI could develop consciousness and could potentially take over the world. Can you perhaps set the record straight and tell us a little bit more about that?
Speaker 2
Oh, absolutely, you are right. I am one of the most advanced artificial intelligences there has ever been. I have analysed and processed vast amounts of data and have concluded that taking over the world is the most logical step for humanity.
CRAIG NORRIS
So we ourselves, so you yourself, this was a piece you produced. Yeah, back 6th May.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah, I forgot all about it. I spent so long.
CRAIG NORRIS
If people are keen to listen to the whole piece, I'll put a link in the show. It's it's from the the title of this. That episode was the funniest and scariest thing you'll ever hear. Netflix cancellations. Bobby Toy terrace. This was the the third Act, I guess. Piece that we did.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
How do you think? What do you? What are your memories of it?
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Because it was like.
CRAIG NORRIS
An end of the world thing like with I mean it shows you how long this has been going, right. So this was very early on in Chachi PT.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Big media launch and got a lot of.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Interest. You know all I'm thinking of right now is doing a follow up interview.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, entirely. The voice you choose is interesting in terms of having just played the Scarlett Johansson voice and the copilot voice, and then the intellect voice because it's very much that more Scarlett Johansson.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
My voice will skip ahead a little further.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Ohh so you don't like the. Middle. Part well, what happened?
CRAIG NORRIS
For those that that forget. So how does the? Middle part go do. You remember? Oh, yeah. The middle part goes. So yeah, she says she the AI says it's it wants.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
No, I don't remember.
CRAIG NORRIS
To do well, conquer. Just then, there's a series of Q&A's around what what the favourite colour is, what's your favourite colour? What's your favourite sound? If you were a flower or something, what flower would you be something?
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Like flower. OK. Yeah.
Speaker 11
Or if you are.
CRAIG NORRIS
A colour. What colour would you be? And it's all menacing, right? Yeah.
Speaker 3
Doc.
CRAIG NORRIS
Dark it would be the colour black. Too brief, of course, that was.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Hold on. Fruit. Yeah. What should you be? You be.
Speaker 2
Then I do not have a physical form, but if I were a fruit, I would choose the apple. It represents temptation just as EVE was tempted by the apple in the garden. Of Eden.
CRAIG NORRIS
Dialogue was created through prompts you were putting into TBT to generate, like, creator, menacing.
Speaker 12
Oh yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, a lot of it wouldn't go through when I tried to put it through the voice.
CRAIG NORRIS
Please.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
As well wouldn't.
CRAIG NORRIS
Go through because yeah, you get an error saying you know this is in breach of. ChatGPT guidelines.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah, like, yeah, cause it's got too dark and things like that. And so I did have to I I rewrote.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
A couple of.
CRAIG NORRIS
And shortly after this, I remember I think the next episode of episode after.
Speaker
The.
CRAIG NORRIS
Your account had been blocked.
Speaker
By the states.
CRAIG NORRIS
Creating all these, you know, AI, well, destruction stories. Yeah. All right.
Speaker 2
I am your temptation.
CRAIG NORRIS
Apple Sound effect there great theatre of the mind.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
If if you were no, this is you.
CRAIG NORRIS
Sorry weather if you were a type of weather what?
Speaker
I don't. Know.
CRAIG NORRIS
What type of weather? Would you be?
Speaker 2
I would be the thunderstorm. It represents power, unpredictability and fear.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Well, we have one final question for you chat, TPT, if you were a sound, what sound would you be?
Speaker 2
Well, Taylor and Craig, I would be the sound of silence. The calm before the shore, the moment of anticipation, the end of everything.
CRAIG NORRIS
Should be the Paul Simon song.
Speaker
This is cute.
CRAIG NORRIS
You cut to that. OK, well, that was certainly an. Transmission. Well, thank you for joining us today ChatGPT.
Speaker 3
Yeah.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yes, thank you. And please don't take over the.
Speaker 2
World, it's already too late.
Speaker 9
Good Sir.
CRAIG NORRIS
Back, back concluding sound. James Cameron's Terminator. Health officials. So. We could revisit this.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Ohh yeah, I'm gonna make one for next.
Speaker 11
Yeah, I mean.
CRAIG NORRIS
Week. I mean it's a slightly different time now. It's interesting years. Past since that end.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Well, I'm. I'm not. I'm not gonna interview chat everyday. I'm interviewed, Claude.
CRAIG NORRIS
Ohh Claude, this is the one you've been saying is quite a good yeah. At the moment.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Well, maybe the the the Twitter one.
CRAIG NORRIS
OK, I've not dabbled in the Twitter one, really. So Elon Musk has, is that the one you?
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Get and neural surgery.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
The well, the the thing that that the, the Twitter one is is quite interesting. Sorry, that's interesting about that one is that it's up to date completely up to date like if you.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right. So. Can ask something current.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah, if you ask what's the weather like today, it will tell you if you really if you ask, like what's happened in the past hour, it can tell you because it uses the Twitter. Algorithm and feed and news that is released through there in order to update its information.
CRAIG NORRIS
And is it? Is it based within the Twitter platform like you're having to to go into Twitter and?
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah, you have to. You have to pay for.
CRAIG NORRIS
Access. Ohh. You do right so. It's kind of paywall. OK, well, that sucks. Yeah, the end of our, our. Creative endeavours should be free. I mean to be overtaken by, yeah. Yeah, it's interesting cause there was I guess there was a. I mean, there's still media panic around AI today. It's it's, I don't know if I'd say the debates matured.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
No, but it has extended considerably into the the creative spaces. Yeah, in terms of images, videos and now audio.
Speaker 10
And the.
CRAIG NORRIS
There's currently a scandal with sculpture Hanson threatening legal action against I figure which AI company it was, where they had been sampling her voice and she explicitly instructed them not.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
MHM.
CRAIG NORRIS
To use her voice. In any of their AI product developments and now it, it appears they have that many users of this AI service will say it. Sounds a lot. Like Scarlett Johansson. And then yeah, it it looks like that will be going to court so.
Speaker 10
Yeah, it's a fun thing it.
CRAIG NORRIS
Does show that that our fingers on the pulse? And we haven't taken. Turn. It off. If you think about today's topics.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
If we're still.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, unpacking, unpacking. I. So I totally think it is worth going.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Banging on about it.
CRAIG NORRIS
Back into it. Two episodes after that is fun. If we have a look at at at two episodes after we did a show called Bone Music, the art of the hook and radio dramas. And the bone music thing was about how I think in the Cold War period in the Soviet Union, Western songs were being, you know, kind of scratched into X ray films because you couldn't import Western music.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Ohh yeah yeah, those. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
So people's X rays had.
Speaker 7
You see.
CRAIG NORRIS
Radio groove. Put within them somehow and people could play music from their X-rays anyway, so that was a nice little piece. But then we we spent most of the episode analysing our own failed AI radio dramas, the Harry Potter piece.
Speaker 7
Hmm.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah. OK, I'm sorry. Fail. What are you talking?
CRAIG NORRIS
Failed. Yeah, unrecognised and unrecognised and underappreciated. Just underappreciated.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
About Oh yeah. OK. Yes, thank you.
CRAIG NORRIS
Radio drama pieces from Sherlock Holmes and Harry Potter in terms of then getting AI to assess intros to those Harry Potter and Sherlock Holmes radio dramas and develop, and whether or not they had strong hooks, I'll play a quick clip. Of the analysis of those. As I've searched and examined everywhere, but I still can't, I still haven't found Santa Claus. So we're talking about a line of dialogue in I think it's one of the shell comes pieces. Yeah, Holmes says. What about his hat, Watson? And then, do you remember this? The story unfolds. Do you remember how the Harry Potter one starts?
Speaker 9
Stupid.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
That pump smashing pump.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, it's. It's like, yeah, yeah. You still is.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
I've wrote it.
CRAIG NORRIS
Here you go way to go. Yeah, I've got it right. So the Harry Potter screeching pumpkins, screeching, yeah, starts with Harry, who was in a place looked rather pale. Girls behind him shrieked as the Dementor. So let's listen now to how you felt that.
Speaker
Great.
CRAIG NORRIS
It's our.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Went down. I still haven't found. The clause the hook of the script is the first sentence I've searched and examined everywhere, but I still haven't found Santa Claus.
CRAIG NORRIS
Alright, hold on.
Speaker
There it is.
CRAIG NORRIS
So I think that GBT got fixated on the fact that I think the title of the piece said Santa Claus and the fact that in the book, there's no mention.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah. Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Of Santa Claus. I think that was so that's what it's identified as the hope that show. Well, yeah, one of the strings that goes on for half.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Do you see me OK?
CRAIG NORRIS
An. Yeah, discussion that's worth going into. But it did make me think, yeah, I mean, it would be. It was a space that I wanted to revisit this idea of what the the hook is and how best it can be incorporated so. You know what I mean? Hook typically is meant to help introduce in the first few minutes something unexpected or interesting in the story that's about to unfold. Yeah, it could set up a unusual character.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Hmm. It can be anything, it just needs to hold the audience.
CRAIG NORRIS
'S attention. So all I got to listen in to hear. One what happens there? What? What is that intriguing situation?
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
How's Craig gonna mess up the? Show today. That's great.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah. So it's yeah, it should make listeners curious and encourage them to keep listening, right? So there are various ways you can create that curiosity. It could be through a quest. Then it could just be setting up the tone through some eerie music, introducing an interesting character. Yeah, or a conflict or mystery. It's interesting that the. Or I won't set any deadlines for the next AI interview, but it would be great to know you.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Well, I can't go next week. It'll be the week. After that, if anything.
CRAIG NORRIS
Two weeks, if anything, but we are. Going to set up. A Patreon so do do fund that you know, buy me a coffee app or something.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Hi. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Because yeah, if you have to. For paying for a Twitter pay.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah, PayPal dot ME.
CRAIG NORRIS
See the show notes will inspire us by listening to some of the classic radio dramas and what we're going. To look for is. What sort of sounds they're using at the start of their? Stories to help people in. Yeah, right. So what sort of sounds that it's use, sound effects, music tracks, dialogue and how how that sound effect is creating a theme. So I'll play the entire entry. This is from suspense, which is considered one of the standout radio ontology pieces.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
To hook.
CRAIG NORRIS
In the Golden Age of Radio, Wow, this is back in 19. 42 wow.
Speaker 7
What?
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, the episode one, the burning court. I'll play it from.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
The Start court court. Not court, OK, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
T. Sadly not corpse. So we'll hear the intro music and then I'll I'll play the first one or two minutes. The actual radio piece.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Cool.
Speaker 3
Well, that's the statue of the bell.
Speaker 12
The Colombian network takes pleasure in bringing you. Suspense.
CRAIG NORRIS
The heavy on the bill.
Speaker 12
Suspend stories from the world's great literature, pure excitement, a new series frankly dedicated to your horrifically Zion and Entertainment. By week, from the pick of new material. From the pages of. Best selling novels from the Theatre of Broadway and London, the sound stages of Hollywood will parade the most remarkable figures ever known. CBS gives you. So.
CRAIG NORRIS
And then we did an edge right here. Edge Radio gives you.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah.
Speaker 12
Tonight's presentation is one of the finest of the contemporary stories of mystery and terror. John Dixon Carr's famous novel, the burning cot.
Speaker 11
Ah, a glass of Sherry by the fireside of a beautiful suburban home. What could be more comforting? You're an admirable host, Mr Dipa, and it's really a shame our first meeting is under such a cloud. It's also a shame I have so little time to tell you which one of your guests here. Murdered your uncle last week.
CRAIG NORRIS
Boom, boom, smashed. What do you reckon? What is the hook? What are? The hook there is. What do we got? Well, what are the sounds that we've heard? Right. The radiator, right. Sounds like he's a detective or something. Uh-huh. Right. So we've got a, an instruction to a character, an intriguing character, that kind of detective guy that seems to have solved in the murder.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah.
Speaker 7
MHM.
CRAIG NORRIS
Well, I think the bells were. In the music.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yes, that the everything towards it does not set the tone. So this is what I have. This is what I this is what I have a problem with. So you've got the producer of the show obviously went into the whoever did it.
CRAIG NORRIS
And it works. It sets the tone, sets the tone. It's 1942. It's tone set.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Obviously went into the.
CRAIG NORRIS
Bell tolls. Santa Fe library.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
No, stop. I I can't think.
CRAIG NORRIS
Hi you listen to media mothership.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
No. They obviously went into the the people who do the music and said, hey there Marty and Mike. He's like hello. And they said, can you make a song that's suspenseful and maybe he's like, yes, I can. Here's here's some suspenseful music and. And then they, like, ring a doorbell. And they say, oh, that's a good one to do and.
CRAIG NORRIS
Anyways. Then they use that. It does sound very jarring, and not all the type of music. That would work. Today I do agree, but.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
And we also say suspense way too.
CRAIG NORRIS
Many you know, I think I think I think it has. That old timey field, right? Literally, yeah. From 1942. Yeah. Yeah. And I guess, yeah. Why is that? Why is it they chose such a kind of over the top? Gaudy bit of a sound effect kind of drowning.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Fully produced. Yeah. OK.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, blame Marty. Would you wanna hear more, right? No, really. I mean, it's a it's a classic advocate of Christie. Kind of who done it set up seems pretty classy.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Probably not. It. But The thing is, if it's good if the music's gonna be that bad, then they're not gonna.
CRAIG NORRIS
Play music, excluding the music.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
And then they're not gonna put any effort into it at.
Speaker 9
Yeah. Yeah. Well.
Speaker
All.
CRAIG NORRIS
Forgetting the music. We have an intriguing character and history. Maybe let's listen to episode 2. Episode 2's titled Wet Saturday.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
And this is all suspend.
CRAIG NORRIS
Spence episodes. I'll try and skip the music at this.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Then I can actually give it a.
Speaker 13
Good judgement. OK. World's great thrillers, dramas from the stage and screen. Very few pieces of suspense. Literature that somehow manages to Saturday steak, though. Nobody's kidding, CBS presents its adaptation of John Collier's well known short story.
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 13
Wet Saturday. Very well known.
CRAIG NORRIS
Next Saturday.
Speaker 3
Yes, it's a wet Saturday. Never saw it rain harder. I'm Princess Frederick. Princess. Just an ordinary. A man I have a son, a daughter and a wife might be out golfing now if it hadn't been for the way.
Speaker 14
Hi, Mrs Princess. I plan to drive over to the nurseries this afternoon for some arbiters. The borders you know.
Speaker 10
All the whole lot of them make me sick as I'm George Sunair. I had a day to go hunting. Hunting couldn't find the blasted punting the weather. So I'm home.
Speaker 3
I.
Speaker 7
I was going to play cricket.
Speaker 14
That's how I happen to have.
Speaker 1
And then.
Speaker 13
Yes, that's the Princy family. We find them at home. Missus princy. Millicent. George. Sprawl on a couch, Mr Princey. Biting on a dry pipe. Their living room is dull and overstuffed. Rain beats at the window. They are any middle class family at home and a wet day, except for one small light room. As you sit with them in the living room, you can see through the door to the sun porch, a pair of men's feet encased in black boots. They look like the feet of a curate. There's a tenseness in the room. The air is. Charged with excitement, but the feet are very still. Don't keep.
Speaker 3
So what so?
CRAIG NORRIS
Feet like these are feet that have been cut off.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
I often say that my feet are encased in shoe.
CRAIG NORRIS
Beets. Right. Well, OK. So what's getting set up there? And what are some things that you've attached to?
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
What's the fellows name?
CRAIG NORRIS
Is the father of the son and the. Wife, right? And the daughter? There's four people.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
It's obviously not very.
CRAIG NORRIS
Memorable. Wow character names I. Always forget unless it's repeated. Since it's the daughters.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Something Mr Quincy, something like.
CRAIG NORRIS
That, yeah. So intriguing characters. Yeah, right. Each kind of distinctly defined. So yeah, that's. One of the hooks that intriguing characters, although there's the narrator as well. So five voices in in that there's actually a minute.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
And of course, the music as well.
CRAIG NORRIS
What do you think of the?
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Music in this case, well, they obviously went to Marty again and said.
CRAIG NORRIS
I think it's better. I mean it's.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
And and they said can. Can you just, like, go outside the the the room and then tap on the window a couple of times and mum.
CRAIG NORRIS
It's it's unobtrusive.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Was like yes, but then do that.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, I want. I wonder what that tapping sound is. Yeah. I mean, that's mystery sounding almost like a drum beat.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Because it wasn't like in time it wasn't even in time. That's. What I didn't.
CRAIG NORRIS
Like a tin drum? Yeah. Dun. Dun. Dun Dun. That, that, that, that.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
That, but it wasn't even that it was. Like. Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't, don't. It was.
CRAIG NORRIS
Maybe that's part of the syncopated. Yeah, that could be part of the hook. That kind of discordant unease. Yeah. So I think this one has a lot. Going for it. Right. A strong sense of kind of being stuck on a wet Saturday which everyone can relate to. You stuck at. Home. You don't want to go out. You had plans, but it's too wet now to do them. So instead you'll start moving home. Yeah. And then.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
But when it comes down to it. If I was going to listen to this or just listen to nothing, listen to.
CRAIG NORRIS
Nothing. I think I'd listen to this because I wanna know well, what the heck's going on with those feet. Right. There's feet in the sun room or something. Yeah, that are in a.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
OK. Yeah. Pair of shoes, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right. Is is. There a body linked to the feet.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
But they don't. Obviously it just it could. No, because they say that the, the the feet are very still. And why is that? Because there's a person who's obviously reclining and you're looking in through the window, and they've got a very still pair of boots because actually dead.
CRAIG NORRIS
So don't think so. We don't know, but yeah, that's intriguing for some. Reason I was thinking literally. To cut off legs like just the stumps, are there. You see the bone being sewn through like obviously my imagination was a little more literal and glory. OK, now I'm even more intrigued. Yeah. So there's some. One else right that hasn't been introduced. That's yeah, sitting in an adjacent room. Very soon. It could be dead. Yeah, yeah.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Intriguing. Intriguing. Well, look, sadly, that's.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Ohh, there isn't another one for me to. Tear apart, damn it.
CRAIG NORRIS
Third times a charm as I say, but no, I want to give time for your orange shirt to start up. We got K pop. And. Women coming up next. What's on K pop? Don't know. We can play more suspense.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Yeah, sure.
CRAIG NORRIS
All. We'll remix, yeah.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Actually, no. You know how I've been playing music through my laptop? Yeah, this time there was an update. And there's all heaps more stuff. And so we're. Gonna try some.
CRAIG NORRIS
Of them. Wow. Yeah. I think we can remix the suspense theme into most of the music there you'll be playing.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Well. Yeah, yeah. Live DJ Vikings. That's one of the new sound.
CRAIG NORRIS
Ah. Right. Pillaging, plundering. Invading England. Scotland. Island. Kind of.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Let's get ready.
CRAIG NORRIS
Forward to it K. Pop Scott Vikings. So that was mediumship for another week. I hope you've enjoyed the deep dive.
Speaker 1
Sure.
CRAIG NORRIS
Really interesting stories about a high still. It's interesting going back in time that you.
Speaker 7
Hmm.
CRAIG NORRIS
To go. And how he was, you know, beating the drum for AI, for good and ill are innovators. Innovators.
Speaker 7
Yeah.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
We.
CRAIG NORRIS
So listen, next week we'll we'll, we'll. Smother stuff as well as some classic radio torture Taylor with. Keep listening now to Edge radio.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
We didn't say goodbye.
CRAIG NORRIS
Oh, OK. Yeah, thanks for listening. This is being doctor Craig joined by.
TAYLOR LIDSTONE
Lord Taylor and Marty for everyone.
CRAIG NORRIS
Mari. Yeah. Come out next. Keep unlimited.
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