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Craig Norris

Dec 19, 202435 min read

Storytelling Reversals

Episode 93 - With host Craig Norris and & Taylor Lidstone.

First Broadcast on Edge Radio, 6 December 2024.

We explore the latest unusual media culture fails, then discuss the art of the "reversal" in storytelling, as explained in Jim Mercurio's "The Craft of Scene Writing: Beat by Beat to a Better Script."

Join us as we dissect iconic movie scenes, revealing how a well-crafted reversal can turn the tide of a story, leaving audiences on the edge of their seats. Discover the logic behind those unexpected twists and learn why the buildup to a surprise turning point is the secret sauce to unforgettable storytelling.

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TRANSCRIPT

This is an AI-generated audio transcript, and it may contain errors. We may update or correct this transcript in the future. Please get in touch with us if you have any questions about the information in this transcript. The audio is the official record of this episode.

Alright, um, yes, we are now broadcasting on Edge Radio 99.3 FM. Welcome to Episode 93 of Medium ownership here on Edge Radio 99.3 again and on. This show we. Explore how media can shape our understanding of the world around us, where streaming on edgeradio.org dot au as well as. Hopefully over YouTube and Twitch you can find us just by searching media mother ship and we're also on the DAB. Ohh message as in if you have any thoughts or points as where exploring aspects of media culture today via the SMS line on 0488811707 we'll send us a message over. Yeah. Certainly Twitch, I believe Twitch is working. You can try YouTube should be streaming there as well. Hopefully. Anyway, today's topic, we're going to be looking at some ways in which movies can frame reality. But first, we're going to look at some intriguing news articles, including one that came out recently with the. Popular movie Wicked Gizmondo was reporting a week or two ago that the the toy line Mattel accidentally X rated the wicked series. Ohh movie, because of doll packaging and now there's a lawsuit so apparent is now suing the toy company. After the URL for a **** website mistakenly appeared on packaging for wicked dolls. So this of course is a huge epic fail from Mattel where on the box for dolls linked to the wicked movie, which of course is the retelling of or kind of prequel, I guess to Wizard of Oz toys stoves that would be released coinciding with that based on the lead actors and. Entities from that movie anyway on the box there was a a URL, but unfortunately the URL for wicked that they put on there was actually for an adult entertainment website rather than the movies official landing page and now a parent has sued. So what had happened was the box for the dogs used wicked.com rather than wicked movie.com , and the complete failure. I guess of double checking the. Copy there. When when it got released so there's a comment here. Um, that from variety. So to read from the variety. Magazine. This is quite here saying, according to court documents, a South Carolina resident is launching a class action lawsuit after purchasing the toy for her young daughter who visited the X rated website that had nothing to do with the wicked. Ohh so the variety trade paper goes on to say the plaintiff alleges that Mattel didn't offer a refund and believes she and her child suffered emotional distress from the misprint. There we go. Another intriguing bit of news coming out around some video game studies. This one's from gamespot.com . The headline is gamers may spend more time watching games than playing them. Intriguing. The article goes on to say a new report has suggested that players are more engaged watching game videos than actually playing the games. This is from a 17 page report from an organisation called Media Research MIDIA research. And they detailed the time that players or various age groups spend playing games and watching game related videos. Article goes on to say that the consumer survey was conducted in the second quarter of 2024. So pretty recently and featured responses from plays in the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada, Germany, France, Sweden, South Korea and Brazil. According to the reports, the total average time that plays devote to playing video games is approximately just under 16 hours a week. Uhm total. So of that 16 hours, only 7.4 hours are in fact spent with the games playing the games, while the remaining 8.5 hours had just of one more hour to voted weekly to watching the game content on Twitch, YouTube, and social media outlets. So it's fascinating that watching various, I guess let's plays react videos, we'll discussions or video games. Uh, this this bit of research indicated that that more people that people are spending more time watching those video games discussion pieces than the actual video games, feel free to add me to your mother ship media motherships to that list of watching content, talking about games rather than playing games. So let's jump onto that. Fun little bandwagon. Now what I'd like to. Do is is. Explore some points around cinema and the reason why I'm so interested in looking at cinema was recently I watched. I finally got around to watching Wolverine. Ohh sorry. Dead Pool and Wolverine, the superhero movie. Uh, tongue and cheek. With Hugh Jackman and Ryan Reynolds, of course. And there was 1 scene in it in particular, which I found really amusing because of how it deliberately played with expectations. And then didn't fulfil that expectation or or reinvented it. So the scene I'm speaking about and again there will be some spoilers in the discussion of movies on today's programme. So so listen up. But most of the movies we're going to be discussing are quite old, and for the dead pool and Wolverine movie, you know, the scene involves a superhero character that kind of then gets, gets, gets killed through Deadpool's kind of betrayal in a really amusing fashion. So again, what that sent out in this, in my mind was. Ohh how effective it can be in reversing expectations where you have a turning points in a film or a movie book. Anything you're reading any bit of fiction you're engaging with where the uh dialogue action characters suddenly. Take a turn right. They reverse the direction you expected them to go in and it it it can be very entertaining when it's done well. So I want to dive into this idea. There's a really fascinating book called The Craft of Scene writing by Jim Massaro, who unpacks this idea of the reverse all set up some of his ideas first. Then we'll play some clips he discusses, as well as some other movies that I think nicely capture this idea of why this concept of the reverse. Is really useful to understanding how some cinema works. How some storytelling works really well and other storytelling kind of fools ever.

Sorts the essence of surprise surprises. In the climax of a scene or story, go by various names. These include plot twist, turning point, plot point event, and several others. Of all the terms, my favourite is reversal because it calls attention to the shape of the build up and eventual surprise in terms of structure itself. A well choreographed surprise and a light comedy. Will look exactly like the twist in a prestigious and stuffy Oscar Bay drama, a reversal in a sentence of action description will work just like the twist in your screenplay. That hurdles your story into the final act and toward the showdown. It's not enough to veer sharply. The story must move full speed from One Direction to an opposite. Her powerful scene from LA Confidential shows how this principle creates a strong turning point and a crisp reversal in the film. The antagonist, Dudley Smith James Cromwell shows Bud White, Russell Crowe a picture intended to spark his violent temper.

Alright, so we'll pause it there. Well, let's listen to this scene. So of course, LA confidential, great little hard boiled cop drama set in the. 19 not into war. Period. I want to say Thirties, 40s. And Russell Crowe, uh is playing off and against um.

Chara. Yeah. Who is about to head into conflict? So the setup for this scene is that you know, this one cop, played by Russell Crowe, is going to fight and probably. So another cop played, played by Guy Pierce. So that's the direction it's going in. And again, the concept of reversal here is how that scene then shifts. So our expectation is this character is going. To get killed. And Taylor makes a good point here on the on the chat here in the studio. Say if it's hard boiled cop. Is there a soft boiled cop? I don't know. I think anything aimed probably for an audience PG and under would probably be soft boiled. Well, we will be having a clip from Casablanca, which is aimed at PG. I'd still say aspects of that as hard boiled. Anyway, let's listen now to this scene from LA Confidential, where the character Bud White, played by Russell Crowe, fights it actually played here by um Guy Pearce. Well, I'm glad you're here.

I need you to see this.

So the missing gay piece has just seen that Russell Crowe character is holding a photo incriminating him with Russell Crowe, the character Russell Crowe's planes girlfriend, setting him set up to this fight scene, which then gets unleashed. Then this music is is rising. Couple. Of loans branded together.

So of course our expectation while we're watching this scene, is that guy Pearce's character is is gonna die, right?

Russell Crowe is laying into him and.

He wants you to kill me.

He showed you the photo, didn't he?

So guy pieces characters trying to convince Russell Crowe that it's a set up that is being played.

And there we go. Suddenly the background music stopped. Russell Crowe has thrown a chair at the window, but it's calming down now and we're seeing a reversal happen here.

I checked the daily report books.

Dudley, Buzz Meeks and stands when go way back.

I know Stenson lied to me.

All right, so there we have this reversal, this moment where the audiences anxiety and fears that a good cop, Guy Pearce, is about to be killed by kind of shady bad cop Russell Crowe, aren't fulfilled. But instead we have this this twist. Where we realise that. Have Russell Crowe's character is being as being he's being played with the expectation. Who could value pieces? So let's hear now how Mercurio then unpacks this scene fellow.

Officer Ed Exley. Guy Pierce sleeping with whites girlfriend Lynn Bracken. Kim Basinger, predictably White finds excelling, intending to hurt and possibly even kill him. Like any good bad guy, Smith manipulates White's character flaw. His demonstrated habit of committing impulsive acts of violence. When White finds actually at the precinct working on the case, he begins to pommel him. The shots are fairly tight, the use of long lenses on a hand held camera, quick cuts and an intense sound design created chaotic look and feel in a few brief laws, Exley urges him to think, but the action continues in the scene culminates with the dramatic finale. White picks up a chair and holds it above axley. His choice is clear. Hit excellent and succumb to his flaw or choose to grow by not hitting him and make Exley his ally to help solve the case instead of slamming the chair down. He hurls it across the room through a closed window. In the literal. Split second that White makes his decision. The following elements abruptly change focal length of the lens longed to short proximity of subject close up to long shot, duration of shot short to long sound frenetic to quiet music present to absent. Steadiness of camera hand held to locked down and depth of focus shallow to deep. The blocking of the actor is also knew he stands still and faces away from us in an emotional respite or disengagement. Rather than taking this as an encouragement to over direct on the page, you should see how all of these artisans, editors, composer, sound designers, cinematographers, and actors are using the same storytelling principles. The director synchronises these crafts to accentuate the heart of the scene and deliver the intended emotional impact. Every creative choice that contributed to the idea of violence, chaos, mindlessness, and loss of control suddenly reverses course to nonviolence, order thinking and control. Apple.

Since the Nice idea there that Mercurio setting up around this idea of how reversal works in terms of everything to do with that scene, not only is the dialogue heading in One Direction, you know. Accusations of sleeping with the character other character's girlfriend, then the background music scene, being this frenetic scoring, obviously the sound effects of of punches and struggle and violence. And then if you will see that scene, the quick shots close ups and so forth that are used to convey this anger, aggression, violence scene and then suddenly that reverse will quiz once. Cruise character decides not to smash the chair against Guy Pearce character's head, but instead throws it. Out the window. And then suddenly everything changes, right? We have that reversal where instead of meeting the expectations that WOW, when the character is going to die, instead they start talking planning inferior out. How do it next? So it goes from minute a kind of action scene to AP. Beautiful scene. And again, that's that idea of reversal. That we're getting at. That we'll unpack with a couple of other things. We'll do one more example that Mercuria sets up which Unix quite quite good. It's a classic from John Wayne's westerns.

Moment in the Western Mcclintock mirrors the scene in LA Confidential and how it sets up a surprise twist. Mcclintock John Wayne steps in to defend Young Ben Bruce Cabot from a shotgun wielding father. Mr. Jones, Leo. Gordon, who imagines his daughter has been disgraced.

So we'll have a listen to that scene now. So it is describing here again is an equally. The potentially violent scene, however. Instead it it it shifts into a different reversal. So let's say as we're hearing this, if you can guess whether reversal comes about, um.

You wanna wear a big hole in your middle?

How long is GW gonna let that cheat Chalker push him around?

That teacher has a sawed off shotgun. How do you know she didn't wander off someplace or meet some fellers?

What are you saying? That I didn't raise my girl right that she'd wonder off all night with some man.

There's a lot of things I'm not saying to you, Mr. Well, you gotta sort out shotgun in my middle. But how do you know this Indian Head? Anything to do with it?

He's gone, ain't she? She's gone.

Ohh hi. I'm only here ha. Been looking for me. Papa Young then took me for a sunrise ride and the horse wandered away.

Were you Ben gal? You come down over there.

She's telling the truth. Mr Clinic, we weren't doing nothing. Well, that's not important right now. Important thing is that you don't draw that hog leg here. This will be worsened. Dodge City on Saturday. You get on back on the waggon. I'll talk to you later.

Now for this young whipper snapper.

But now no harm has been done, and young Ben here is one of the nicest boys in the territory. So just put down that shotgun and let's forget.

I'll teach in the foot with Mike.

Now we'll all calm down a little. I know, I know. I'm gonna use good judgement. I haven't lost my temper in 40 years, but Pilgrim, you caused a lot of trouble this morning. Might have got somebody killed and somebody out of belt you in the mouth. But I won't. I won't. The hell I would never.

Alright, so as we heard the classic scene where we have that build up of violence, particularly in that last bit of dialogue where John Wayne's character saying you know, but I won't, but I won't. So he's he's sign posting one form of action that he's not gonna hit this other character, and then you have that wonderful, great movement of reversal where Wayne's character says they're hell. I would. And absolutely decks that that guy. So let's hear again how this can get unpacked as an explanation of good scene writing.

Jones pokes Mcclintock the peacemaker repeatedly in the gut with a sawed off shotgun. Mcclintock finally loses his patience. Takes the weapon from him and turns the tables. Here is a description and transcription of the moment Mcclintock. I haven't lost my temper in 40 years, but Pilgrim, you caused a lot of trouble this morning. Might have got somebody killed and somebody ought to belt you in the mouth, but I won't. I won't, he turns and backs away from him, but then quickly turns back. And winds up Mcclintock. The hell I won't. Mcclintock hits him with a haymaker, causing him to flip flop down a hill and into a giant pool of mutt. Did might the varying emotional depth of these two scenes they used the same tactic? They twist from 1 extreme to the other. Mcclintock literally turns away from Jones before changing his mind and physically reversing direction to wallop him. Even the repeated line, I won't take him further away from the eventual reversal, the moment undulates from one end of the spectrum, not hitting to the other, most certainly hitting in LA Confidential the moment before White throws the chair out of the window. He holds it over Exley's hat. It covers the same spectrum in reverse order, traversing the vast expanse between most certainly hitting and not hitting in an instant. The power of attorney point is in the surprise shift from 1 extreme to another. The juxtaposition of an idea and its opposite accentuates the twist and contributes to its effect. Simply you have to go left before you go, right? If Mcclintock announces I am going to hit you immediately before doing so, there is no discernible turn and audience won't enjoy the climactic wallop as a reversal. Without the sharp movement that immediately prior. Enter. No one enjoys a story with weak wishy washy turns. This holds true for the split second climaxes of scenes as well as in the climax of your 110. Page script look for a crisp and supply boy, yeah.

So yeah, as we can see that what's really interesting is this idea of a surprising twist where he moves on to something quite interesting is now he starts exploring this idea of why boy can't have gel that rather than boy meets gal. Right, you've gone to sometimes great storytelling. Is refusing that pay off of of boy getting together with GAIL?

Reversal for the climax of every scene as well as in the climax of your overall story, the breakout box. Why boy must lose girl?

So yeah, why? Boy must lose girl. So Ampex some scenes of how Mercurio points out that this idea of reversal also works with romantic movies, romantic dramas, romantic comedies, often through the denial of Boy does not get girl. So the example we'll have a listen to here is from one movie from um man up. Uh, where we have the main character who threw a mistake, meets the wrong girl. So it's a blind date, but mistakenly thinks the wrong gel is there waiting for him. So again, it's the set up around the idea of of boy meets girl, but instead the the the meeting is with the wrong person. And again, that sets up certain expectations of how that might pay off. If if it were to to occur.

So many delays. Hey, what a great way for. Us to recognise each other, right? What a great idea, although I think it would be pretty hard to miss you underneath that huge clock.

Not what we do in. Terms of saying hello, I've never know. What a picture. Is it a handshake? Ohh, was it a Hardman? Is it formal?

You know what? We're adults, you know. Let's just go in. Ohh doing for that. No hello there. So ohh my God, that's not your emergency exit phone call already. Because I haven't had a chance to use any of my best lines yet, that wasn't one of them. If you were worried, I tell you why. Listen, I'll handle this. Come. Hello, Paula. Yes, we have met and I am not a complete psychopath and we've really hit it off and she will call you later with all the gory details. So thank you for calling and goodbye. Done.

So book check and clock check and blind date check. So usually when. In this situation, I would say something in. Maybe you'd say something back and then we talk a little bit about what we're going to do and exchange ideas. You know, sort of quid pro quo, Clarice. In hindsight, that wasn't the best. Impression to do on a first date. Because it brings to mind anyway. Listen, I'm talking. I'm talking a lot and I know you can sense it, so I'm going to just keep going with it and I'm going to start the. Bidding with a drink on London's fashionable South Bank. So is the book says what are you waiting for?

I am waiting. For you.

Good, good, good.

OK. Shall we? Offer you, my lady.

So of course, in that scene what we have is this idea of boy meets gal, but it never pays off and instead we fail to have the relationship. That's Nick Frost. Thought he was going to. Have and the whole movie set up with. Playing with those expectations, let's have a clip now from a classic film that does Boy meets Gal. But then denies boy getting together with girl. Let's see if you. Can guess which film this is.

Because you're getting on that plane.

I don't understand.

What about you?

I'm staying here with him. The plane gets safely away.

No, Richard. Know what has happened to you last night?

Last night we said a great many things you said I was to do the thinking for both of us. While I've done a lot of it since then, it all adds up to one thing you're getting on that. Plane was Victor, where you belonged? Hi.

But Richard knowing.

Got to listen to me. Do you have any idea what you'd have to look? Forward to if you stayed here. Nine chances out of 10 we'd both wind up at a concentration.

Camp is not truly.

I'm afraid mate. Discussed.

I would insist you're saying this only to make me go.

I'm saying it because it's true inside of us.

We both know you belong with Victor. You're part of his work.

The thing that keeps him going off that plane leaves the ground and you're not with him. You'll regret it. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon. And for the rest of your life.

We'll always have Paris. We didn't have we. We lost it until you came to Casablanca. Got it back last night.

When I said I would never leave.

And you never will. I've got a job to do too. Where I'm going, you can't follow what I've got to do.

You can't be any part of. Those are no good at being noble, but it doesn't take much to see that the problems of three little people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world.

Someday you'll understand that. Not. Is looking at you kid.

Alright, so of course that's the famous scene from Casablanca which is really one of those classic, you know, boy meets girl setups where you think Humphrey Bogart and Lauren Bacall gonna get together, but then at the end, the film denies that. And it's boy doesn't get killed. And instead, however, that sends Lauren Bacall's character off to be with her husband.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

So boy gets depression.

Well, he gets the, you know, I wouldn't say Humphrey Bogart. I mean, there are scenes in there. Where he's certainly different. What's actually the next scene, I think takes that logic to its fullest, so we'll see. If only to say what it is, but it's another one of this boy meets gal and you think boy is going to be with go forever. And the last act is no boy does not get kept.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Ohh no, this is yeah.

Ohh okay well don't spoil it.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Wallace and Gromit, curse of the were rabbit.

Secondly, so close it's not claymation, so I should have narrowed that down. That's the most of your guests are claymation. So yes, here we are. We'll play this film in again. It's it's the final act in this film. Ohh it's the final. Yeah, it's act three of the film we were realising. Ohh my God. Boys not gonna get GAIL.

Do you know what is?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Kiss of the wearable.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Ohh well you nailed it.

It is indeed Titanic keriaa in the famous final scene.

Where? So. What's the actress that played this role, 10?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

No. Anyway, yeah, the the love interest is on the the the door or whatever it is, the bit of wood and Jack has sacrificed himself, you know, Dicaprio's character by by wading in the water, holding onto it.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And of course, not wading in the water because otherwise they could have just stood up.

Are you waiting?

Whenever you like, I guess he's suspended in the.

I used to waiting. If you're if. You're waiting in the water like you don't need to be standing to be waiting anyway. That's that's a tangent.

Well, sculling in the sculling here anyway. So yeah, of course. Here we have. Yeah, we we think Leonardo DiCaprio is is going to have a happy ever after ending Boy meets girl. Boy gets girl, but in this case boy meets girl and you know boy doesn't get killed.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

God. Now here's another scene that's discussed as an example of reversal. So this is from the English patients. I won't get people to guess it. Have you seen the English patient?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Neither have I. Ohh, but this scene so you got Rafe back. Pines, who played of course the character of what Mary Potter.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Voldemort. That's right. That's what many people. I've known from Aldermore Arts in this movie.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Who, as opposed to his his major role in what's it called? The black and white movie.

Is that the name?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

No, no. The the really thing is list China's list.

Yeah, as the the. Nazi guy.

Um and yeah. Anyway, moving on so in this scene we have a sandstorm that's approaching and it's a bit of dialogue, which is given as an example of of. A reversal. OK, it's very subtle reversal in this sense. We what we're doing is we're kind of setting up through dialogue, the sense that. Um, actually the opposite is going to be true than what's being said. So let's see if you can guess what the reversal concept is in this bit of dialogue. So both characters. So basically the sensor on coming both characters have taken shelter in the car. Race Crate finds characters, the kind of you know guide here a character and the the actress. The actress there. Anyway, let's listen to the scene from Okay Winslet.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

That's what I'm saying.

Kate wins. There we go.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

That was from the Titanic.

There we go again.

Yeah. There we go, okay. So that was Kate Winslet. Alright. Anyway, here we go. Here we go. So they're getting into the car. And we have some dialogue.

Let me tell you about wind.

Ohh, this isn't the dial. Sorry.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

It's the wind dialogue.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

You don't want the wind dialogue. We want this. Dialogue.

OK. This is not very good, is it? We would. Be. Around, yes. Bike. Yes. A. Yes, there's a comfort.

Absolutely is not.

Okay. So did you pick it up? The sense of reversal that's there.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

No. And then absolutely.

Well, yes, he starts. By saying no. But then he realises he needs to provide comfort. You could, I mean, as the script writer. That way. So you guys, are we gonna be? Hey, and he goes. Yes, yes and and that that inflation's going upwards and sending positive. And then the way he delivers the line, absolutely, it's very flat and monotone suggests that.

Actually no. Everything's going to be okay, which is what she picks up on this day there of of a short bit of dialogue reversal as an actual. Do you feel that? That are there moments of reversal that you've performed, like where you've you've you've you've said one thing and then you're actually meaning the opposite or you're doing misdirection, right? You're you're saying? It's going to be fine. We've got this, but your character knows you haven't, or something or or. You're setting the audience up. A reversal where this can be twisted.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Surely. Surely at some point I mean when it comes to my, the stuff that I've acted as the day after, I forget everything.

Huge cannon. Really. So you kind of blanked on being. Ohh you like a detective character?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

The other detective character with something.

That character would be involved in a lot of sleuthing and build up intention and red herrings.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Ohh yeah. But also comedy.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Ohh Comic Relief.

Which is also about Mr actually.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Well, okay. Well, we'll look at some. We'll listen to Samantha performances.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

He's a famous scene. And again, this is this is a misdirection scene. And why not misdirection? Sorry, this is just a reversal scene. Many people consider this probably the one of the most famous reversal scenes where up until this point people in the cinema thought ohh this is this type of character and then you realise ohh no. This fight is about something else.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Is it the prestige?

Ohh that is a great example, though that is a great example. I mean, we will talk about that now. Because you raised it.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

The Prestige is a fantastic in terms of misdirection. I mean, the whole film is about misdirection. You got Hugh Grant and. Batman. The guy that played Batman isn't the other active that's in it, bail Christian Bale.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Was it? Was it Hugh Grant?

Hugh Grant this was not another, said Hugh Grant and Christian Bale.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

I thought I thought it was the Australian fellow.

Hugh Grant is in a strange fella, and Christian Bale is. The other isn't cause like.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Then he grunts. Not Australia, he's British.

Very ohh sorry not here. And The Wolverine act.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, that, that's.

It's not to the H.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, she's somebody, yeah.

Hugo weaving no. Just. Hugh Jackman.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

You got man, yeah.

Gee whiz anyway. Yeah. Yeah. So, so, but then you have a Christian Bale's character, of course. The reveal at the end spoiler is in fact that you've had misdirections throughout that that they're twins, right? Which is so masterfully. Created anyway. Now, this is another misdirection. Let's see if you can pick up what it is.

The beat the. It is useless to resist.

Don't let yourself be distracted because you want to.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Wally, that's not.

Eat whenever you want, no. Alright.

And you know. The misdirection for this, of course, is.

The famous line.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

No, I am your father.

White this actually this film is 1. Of these Mandela Effect films, yeah.

Don't make. Me do.

Many people think the line is yeah here again.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Would like to get realised or importance.

So at this point we're thinking up until this point our feeders character is a villain.

This when you join me.

Going well, he's still is after this, but he's the enemy, right?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Ohh yeah. Still, little Millen.

He's an enemy, basically.

Ohh combined strength we can end this ******* conflict and bring all you never told you what happened to your father?

Going forward a bit, here we go. Here it is.

He told me enough.

People make you kill. No. Aye, am go father.

Yeah. So reversal in terms of audience expectations? Of how that fight would. Go. You'd think either Luke would triumph at this point. Luke is losing, so the appearance is ohh how badly Luke will be defeated.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And that was obviously from Star Wars like the the series that was pretty bad. And then Disney took over and became really good. Yeah.

Absolutely amazing, and it's an unripe. I mean many people. Many people, yeah, may may not have. Heard of this film? That was episode 5. Empire Strikes Back. Um, but yeah, it's a kind of reversal there in terms of expectations of how the good guy, bad guy find.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Gets resolved. Then instead of it just being how madly is defeated, it's instead you know this crisis of paternalism, of identity, and much more. To method discussion, so direction now for reversal. Uh, that is discussed. Is this idea of misdirection where films deliberately create expectations in the audience that ohh, this character is going to be doing that? This is that type of character, so therefore the film's going to map out this way. We're going to. Listen to Kent.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Watching. What like in Canada, the main character has no magical powers, but then at the end of the film has the powers to bring everyone together.

Huh. Wow. Is this your fan? Fiction.

What is Canto in Canto in Canto is this is a claymation?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

No, it's Disney.

It's Disney. Yeah. When did it come out? Ohh yeah yeah yeah. I think of. A vague memories of a poster.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

So this was a film. Came out a few years ago. Yep.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, it's actually bloody good.

Yeah, okay. Yeah. So that would be great example, yes. So we have that main character that. You think is. Has these types of hours or is this type of person? But then shifts. Alright, well, he's one that's considered quite famous in terms of, you know, I character that gets established in act one that you think is going to be the main character. And then in not being the main character.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Is this something to do with? Like. Game of Thrones.

Something you know, Game of Thrones is a good example. Of another concept. So we will get back to that in the next 10 minutes that we've gone the. So, do you know any of these sounds?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Ohh I know what it's like.

A great you didn't really willingness psycho. This is the famous shallow scene in Psycho.

Here we are with Jane's character taking a shower. Act one psycho. Now of course, this preview the scene is famous not only for being very brutally violent, but also the fact that we think generally is the main character but dies at the end of act one.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And so suddenly we've got this feeling like her. Because up until this point, like a character in act one steals, money, dries to the motel, is remorseful and is about, you know, obviously we know this character is going to. Return.

But now we have the scene where no, no. This is a different type of movie. This is this is psycho. So yeah, her character is killed. Bradley in this shower scene, famously Mizan said up. So again, that's that's an idea of reversal. Suddenly this character reverses. Who? The character is in terms of, not main.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Character, a modern term, one that I can think of is not. Doesn't lane.

Ohh OK right. The World War One.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, that's all shot in one film sequence.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Fantastic. But that's where they've got like, you've got the the two soldiers. One one of them is just here. Needs to go off and find his brother, and then the other soldier just sort this sort of tagging along and then the fellow who has the brother ends up dying.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

He's like ohh okay. So this is the being married. Yeah, in this story.

And another great example of this is this one that I'll play now.

Yes. Who is this?

Ohh are you trying to reach?

What number is this act?

What number are you trying?

One same genre, Psycho horror film.

Well, I think you have the wrong number.

Drug Baron was character.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Nightmare on Elm Street.

Plus it is directed by Wes Craven, who did not Vernon St the surplus.

I'm sorry, I guess I dialled the wrong number.

The mask of the killer is based on the was it the the monk scream?

So I can dial it again to apologise.

You are forgiven by now.

Don't hang on. I've literally just said the title of. The.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Film screening.

Yes. So screams famous because of course Act 1 drew Barrymore's in that house getting prank calls. We think she's the main character, cause she's a big adlister or or recognised star.

She dies, right? Totally after this call right act one. A similar gently. So again, this idea that ohh wow the killing like the name character off now.

So again, a nice reversal in what's now I'm going to play some examples where audience expectations weren't met.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Right. These were where. Hopefully.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Hope so would the reversals were a bad idea.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

So um. Um because yeah, you want you want to reverse. Really satisfying. They're very difficult to pull off, but you know it should. It should be a satisfying a memorable moment. Now this is what I'm doing is setting up what people thought was the purpose. Of this franchise, but turned out.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

To choice, there's a whole franchise. That's Jane.

Yeah. OK, just be a misdirection to let me just skip forward to the scene.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

I mean, look, I mean, that's a movie that that has been like the the crystal skulls 1.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

It was considered to be a reversal that didn't work where?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah. Well, was thinking at the end of that one where you've got. I can't just do it that fellow any and yeah, sure.

Yeah, Shyla buff.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Lebouf and he picked up the.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And then Indiana Jones.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And it was like he's gonna put it on to become the next Indiana Jones. Indiana Jones came and took it.

Well, actually the next example after this is very much in that vein. But look, I mean, I think people had expectations of what India and the Jones was and it didn't include that degree of science fiction anyway. Here's the scene for expectations not being.

Do you want to know the truth about your parents? Have you always known? You just hiding it away.

You know the truth.

Sam. Sam. There were nobody.

Our filthy jump traitors told you off for drinking. Okay.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And the poppers?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah. So this of course, is Star Wars, The Last Jedi, you know, and it's setting up this expectation here.

When the truck was destroyed, you can place in the story you come from.

Who is raised parentage right?

So there's various expectations and theories, but the whole kind of playing against expectation, I mean many people would say this movie is a good reversal in some ways because it it actively undercuts people's expectation of what Luke Skywalker is.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, as well, that's what it means to be a Jedi like you have to be from the Skywalker Dynasty or some.

But instead they set it up as a reversal. That ohh snap raised. Not a famous Jedi person. Um, of course, that all undone in the following film.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Where they they decide. No, no, no, no, no, we. Don't want reversals. We just want give the audience what they want.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Living Palpatine back, they say ohh no. That was all kind of. You know a head screw. Ray is someone's Palpatine's daughter.

It's just, yeah. OK, the next film, called a lot of backlash from fans saying this doesn't make sense. This is not at all the pay off. Or reversal they want. It's an attempt to do a reversal, yes, but fans are rejected it.

Here we go. You should use your phone.

I like that name.

Ohh sorry, I'll bring it back again.

Ohh trying to legal name. You should use your full name. I like that. Robin, thanks. Why are we even? Worrying about the stabilisation software, this entire auto.

Well done, Robin please.

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Final Act superhero film.

But it's already ohh.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

That's something to do with Superman.

Robin's not in Superman really close. Same universe DC.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

So this is the little Superman, Robin.

Batman 2012, the 2012 Film Dark Knight Rises Dumber.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Ohh okay yeah I.

Christopher Nolan and.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Don't listen that movie once, and it was when it was. When it came out so.

I really liked it, but anyway this this pay off didn't work in terms of we have this. Police officer, played by Joseph Gordon Levitt throughout.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Who's this kind of idealistic cop, then? The the pay off in Act 3 is that you know we have this, this this line of dialogue. Saying you should use your. Your real name? Robert. Right, Bubba?

And it it just felt to be really underwhelming.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And and and plus he gets the keys to the mat mansion, right?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

So it's it's it's like we were saying with the Indiana Jones cap, well, we're getting here is a is a reversal in a way in terms of.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Character we hadn't realised was is Robin from Batman and Robin. But of course, you know it's it's not the Robin of the comic book universe. It's this attempt to create a kind of, you know, different version of but people.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, just didn't. It didn't really.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

It's on the nose. Thought of another good reversal. Um, the first episode of Black Mirror. No, not first episode of Black Mirror, the second episode of Black Mirror.

Yeah. Black Mirror is kind of built up around that. Was the second episode.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

The second episode was where you've got the everyone lives in these little boxes and it's got box rooms. It's got screens everywhere and like if you shut your eyes, the ads. Um.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Play a high pitched noise so loud that you have to open your eyes and watch the ads, and so you've got the main character played by. I can't remember his name, but he was in Johnny English and we.

Wow the Mr. Bean spy.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Thriller by Rowan Atkinson.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And he. In that film, he's like against all of this, sort of like live streaming sort of thing. And then ends up going on stage after having lost everything with a piece of glass to his throat.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And then. Um, there's this reversal and that becomes his gimmick. And so he starts live streaming with the piece of glass, and in his idealistic bigger room now. And that's his gimmick. Because he's getting the money in.

So rather than, yeah, rather than subversive ending the the character.

Has escaped. He's. Actually become part of the machine. Uh.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Well, yeah, yeah. Look, I was trying to find some other examples. I mean, I know there was a kind of backlash against the majors revolution in a similar phase, not.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

You know, and just that it didn't really make. Sense to me. People at The Hobbit battle of five armies, he's. I mean, I know, I know that. But yeah, I mean, the extended battle scenes, deviations from the source material.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, you you wanna fan?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

No Hobbit movies. Terrible Lord of the Rings best movies.

Well, and I guess maybe the reversal there is people were expecting much like little rings are very, very faithful adaptation.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Right, rather than kind of.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And and that's because they got Peter Jackson back in to do it because Guillermo del Toro was actually originally gonna do it, and he's the one that planned for. And he had, like, six years of planning behind it. And then he decided I'm going to leave. And then they said ohh my God, we need someone in here because he did the Lord of the Rings so. Well, we'll get Peter Jackson in and Peter Jackson is like, I don't know what to do, Hill to do with this, but we've got to keep to the the schedule. And made a pretty poor product.

And will look. At Game of Thrones, you talked about briefly earlier. I mean that final season is considered such an anticlimax. Where the fates of key characters, particularly deaneries Targarian, was was not paid off.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

I I've never seen. I've seen one episode.

Ohh yeah, well, we thank the the the fan dissatisfaction with the reverses that happened was so hostile that I never pushed through to watch final seasons.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Some examples just finishing up now are films where there was that subversion of audience expectations that does work right.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Alien. I don't. I'm not going anywhere with that. I was just saying. Maybe.

No country for old men.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

I mean the fact that you have just this final act where the villain character is not arrested and is instead involved in a car accident, yeah.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Ohh I know I know one which is good service to version which is Bigfoot.

Ohh wow. Bigfoot big.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

What's this one is? That's not Harry and the Hendersons.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

No, no, no. It's a episode of The Goodies and instead of being Bigfoot it just ends up being Tim Brooke Taylor with a massive foot.

Ohh wow. Which is for.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, cause it is singular.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Please. Yeah, I mean, comedy is built around reversals. Things like that. Well, a little bit nice. Chamberlain's films, right, the village. You've seen the village.

What you think you want? A film set in the 19 century and the third act reveals that actually, it's today's world and it's a kind of ******** Mormon community.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

All right. Yeah. Ohh OK yeah.

And there's a crisis that's occurred. MMM hmm.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

The other the like when the most recent movie I've seen of his was old.

Ohh yeah yeah, I've heard of Spain.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And that was that was really poorly done. Really.

Concepts interesting.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Well, the conference.

Maybe when someone explained it to me on paper, it sounded fascinating.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, it sounded really good.

Like pharmaceutical testing laboratory.

Maybe and testing the like like the long term consequences of certain drugs in could concepts.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, great concept.

So this island, yeah.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

But yeah, it was the acting. I think that was mainly part of the rule of.

That, yeah, cabin in the woods. If you seen that, just.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

For you feeling very clever.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

I have heard about that and I've heard that it's all like animatronic or something like that or something.

I mean, and I mean, it's fantastic from my point of view because it has this fantastic premise where you think in the first act you're watching one type of film.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah, it just by the numbers. Horror. I mean, it's just so you know, there's a matter engagement. Yeah, but then suddenly takes this hard left turn.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Hmm. Which which is what?

Well, it turns out no.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Because I thought it was like a like a joke or something.

Well, turns out that horror movies are real. That there a way of the earth to uh offset the cathedral apocalypse, right?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

So around the world, these moments. Of horror that occur.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And they're used as kind of ritualistic blood sacrifices. Yeah, but the idea being that they're actually choreographed. So there's a control room where the cupboards literally is this cliche. Need you know evil dead type cabin? Yeah. Where the characters then and then it's all explained. In very, very. Clever way in terms of like there's a gas that lowers people's like hues, so they start doing these stupid decisions like they split.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Up, for instance. So it's a really fun little media commentary also about why that final girl troop exists, that role that has in.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

You know, it's cause I always actually, I mean it's an interesting I guess type of reverse swing away. There were these two. English professors talking about Stephen King books. One of them was pointing out that to understand Stephen King books, you understand they operate by Literalising kind of moral panics.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

So there's a moral panic that cars kill people. What happens if a car literally killed someone? I like Christine right as satanic. Well, kind of demonic car. Yeah, you know, cell phones to win people's stupid. It's a phrase, so his books sell is all about, well, what if people became zombies like like cell phones are making people S?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Is, um, a whole like a high school is hell to Christine.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Takes that premise like 1. If you have a a kind of hell like character like Christine, plunging everyone.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Yeah. And like there's old carrots being pulled out from my garden. Perhaps there's a wear rabbit?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Well, it's in Gromit.

Um, if there was, if there was a panic that was then a saying like, you know, like, you know.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

Curse of the were rabbit. Please.

Ohh well, I'm losing all my carrots.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

It's a panicking Michael country.

I'm losing all my carrots and then someone says well, you know, that's the where rabbit and people go. It's real. Yeah, maybe.

Alright, well, let's be media membership for another week. We've eaten into some of KPOP, have limited time, so we've.

Um, yeah, keep listening now to its radio 9.3 FM as we get on to keep up and limited and will be posting this episode up on your podcasts, you can listen for more episodes on YouTube and Twitch, and it is Radio Org dot au or your podcast provider of choice. Checkout media membership on Facebook and Instagram. I even talked to Craig joined by. Will Taylor. Will a tailor? Um, yeah. We gotta figure out a reversal there at some point.

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

And yeah. Any final words?

TAYLOR LIDSTONE

My final words are you should have been doing that as you were speaking, yeah.

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