Episode 52 - With host Craig Norris, guest Edward Williams and Daniel Brooks.
First Broadcast on Edge Radio, Friday 3 November 2023.
In this episode, we learn from two successful indie filmmakers who have overcome the challenges of making films with limited funds. They discuss their strategies and best practices for pre-production, location hunting, and film making on a budget.
You can find out more about the latest film project here: https://www.facebook.com/daniel.brooks.50999405
Liten to the podcast episode here:
Listen live to “Media Mothership” every Friday 4-5pm (Australian Eastern Standard Time) via YouTube, Twitch, and Edge Radio.
Follow us on
Transcript
This is an AI-generated transcript of the audio and it may contain errors. We may update or correct this transcript in the future. Please contact us if you have any questions about the information in this transcript. The audio is the official record of this episode.
CRAIG NORRIS
All right, you're listening to media mothership here on Edge radio. 99.3 FM as always on media mothership, we explore how media can shape. Our understanding of the world around us, the reality we perceive, but maybe in a kind of John Carpenter, they live sense media can interrupt that so that you are you really seeing reality or not as always you can watch us via YouTube or. Twitch, which we are. Probably live streaming, we say probably you never know and you can chat. I mean, if we are at live stream, we're always happy to get a message on the chat on YouTube or Twitch or an SMS on 0488811707.
Think virtually.
CRAIG NORRIS
As always, I'm your host. Doctor Craig Norris, joined by indie film Makers Extraordinaires, is that I think I put the. So that. Incorrectly. You're extremes. Yeah. Yeah. Filmmaker extraordinaires. Yeah. Kind of. Anyway, Edward Williams. Hello. I know you from my first experience.
DANIEL BROOKS
I like that I I would say I'm extraordinary, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Of you was. Was behind a camera, so I always think of you as a kind of master cinematographer, but you have. Many roles that you've done. In your indie filmmaking life.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
I I don't think I'm quite ready for the title master, but.
CRAIG NORRIS
Well, yeah, we we could of course start with with. Boring ones like Mr Edward Williams.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Yes, that is my. That is my name.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes, but I I if I mean in fact my my sometimes co-host Taylor. Of course we've made an effort to recognise him as a Lord based on. The dodgy Scottish land property thingy got.
Speaker
Ohh yeah.
DANIEL BROOKS
There's about those. Yeah. Yeah, Yep, Yep.
CRAIG NORRIS
One needed one metre plots, right? On some castle somewhere. And it's like, yeah, you're. A Lord now. Sure. Well.
DANIEL BROOKS
Mast mast, mast.
CRAIG NORRIS
Ohh OK episode.
Speaker 5
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
33 I think of the show. Right, we've unveiled the origins of that. Umm, there you go, yeah. Yeah. So one of those and our media mothership, of course, Full disclosure, we do not encourage or endorse.
Speaker 5
Ventures such as that.
CRAIG NORRIS
Unless they're in complete jest. Or yeah, anyway I.
Speaker
Won't go too.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Well, OK, let's.
Speaker 5
Yeah, Edward.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Derail this whole conversation and talk about Lord.
CRAIG NORRIS
That's true. Where are we going? Where are we going? So, Edward. Ed. Daniel box. Who? I know first from experience with just no. It wasn't it. Was poor for just humans, cause I was on being of despondency.
DANIEL BROOKS
There you are, admitted respondents.
CRAIG NORRIS
Which are great.
DANIEL BROOKS
And obviously, I went to Japan.
CRAIG NORRIS
With you. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Gosh. Tempted to see what happens in Japan? Stays in Japan like Vegas style. But you know, actually not much unremarkable happen. I mean, some great stories. Yes. And and.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yeah, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
We'll dig into. Those in a future episode. But yes, yes for the full. Disclosure, you are a fantastic student of mine, Daniel. In the media school of the University of Tasmania, doing various little media projects during those 3 odd.
DANIEL BROOKS
Years. Yeah, 3 odd years, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Odd being the emphasised word yes.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yeah, it was. No. It was literally three years from. The middle of 2015, to the middle of 2018 pre curbed.
CRAIG NORRIS
That's prehistoric, really. It's it's another ancient era. So you guys, however, have gone on to do some some great film work. And I know, Daniel, you've done on been of despondency. It was kind of directing.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yeah, it feels like it. Yeah, directing and Co writing.
CRAIG NORRIS
And on the socials, I've been noticing new movements happening. Yes, the what's the? It's big love production companies.
DANIEL BROOKS
With yes.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Yes, it was. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, it's coming. Out of those guys.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yes, you are they.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
We've been, we've been in contact with them for a while.
CRAIG NORRIS
Now, yeah, I'm really impressed.
DANIEL BROOKS
I'm I'm I'm I'm in contact with them on. A daily basis.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, of course you guys. Are big love. Yeah, both metaphysically and literally. Yes, you bring much joy. So big Love Productions is involved in this. Of course you do. Is hitting the ground pre producing and what else location hunting yes.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yeah. So we. Started thinking about our next project a few months ago. It was around the time like it was before. Just humans came out and.
CRAIG NORRIS
This is another great little Hobart. Yes, indie film piece so. It's it's a magical place to live in.
Speaker
Per month.
CRAIG NORRIS
So there's always these wonderful little film things which come out so just humans by Eileen, Doreen, Doreen.
DANIEL BROOKS
And yes, so while we were sort of getting prepared to premiere that, I got very prolific and wrote like 4 scripts.
CRAIG NORRIS
And you just took you. It sounds very artistic.
DANIEL BROOKS
Now, mind you, two of those are short, but two of them were bigger.
CRAIG NORRIS
Are these genre pieces? Are they?
DANIEL BROOKS
11 not, not too much, but yes, but one of them in the future is a is a sort of a.
CRAIG NORRIS
NDA's, right? You signed NDA's.
DANIEL BROOKS
A horror comedy priest, but the one coming up, though, is more of a sort of drama comedy adventure.
CRAIG NORRIS
Really great. Movie fantastic. And this is the one you. Guys are currently putting.
Speaker 5
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
DANIEL BROOKS
Together. So this one was actually only born. Conceptually, about four months ago.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right. Alright, so that's a.
DANIEL BROOKS
Very quick, very quick turnover. Yeah, it was written. It took me about. 3 1/2 months to Riot I think something like that. It was pretty. It rolled out pretty easily. For whatever reason, it was just a very easy thing to to put together.
CRAIG NORRIS
So and one of the reasons I'm really. Keen to get you. On is because you are doing everything on a shoestring budget, right? This is a great little insight for listeners out there into how to demystify. Movie making. Yeah, right. You don't need. To have an enormous budget. Yeah, you know, the Bank of Mum and Dad. Not that you didn't.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
No, no, no.
CRAIG NORRIS
Too heavily on that, but your own savings? Yeah, friends. Volunteering this. So I really wanted. To take this. Opportunity to break down for our listeners. How are you getting it done right? What are some of the? Things that's on your mind. What? What is first I? Guess what is pre production?
DANIEL BROOKS
Well, I suppose it would be preparing for the actual film cycle of making the the film but. I suppose. The the so the ground from the ground, like writing it obviously has been done. So from there you can get scripts. That's number one. Yep. But obviously we were sort of thinking about what it was while it was being written. So we were technically planning bits and pieces of how it would be made and what things we'd need for it and who we'd need for it while it was still being written.
CRAIG NORRIS
Has it got a script?
DANIEL BROOKS
Which expedites the process quite.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Extremely. And the way we structured meetings as well. So whenever we bought someone new on board that we've never worked with before instead of just going ohh. Here's a meeting. Here's here's a bunch of paperwork. Here's a bunch of you know, what do you think of the script? All that. Crap. Sorry, that's alright. Crap.
CRAIG NORRIS
Oh, I said it. Now too. Ohh no, I've been very good.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
OK. Lately I've been very good on this.
CRAIG NORRIS
Show no. Well, I don't think we need. Language warning for that one.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
I I apologise dear listeners so. No, the the the meetings were were less about the movie and more about just. Hanging out and getting to know them. Seeing if cause cause. I think the way I view it in my mind and I'm not sure how Daniel views it, but in my mind it's. Ohh yeah, I've decided I would like to work with this person now. It's an opportunity to see if they actually want to work. With us, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right. So you are bringing? Some new talent on board. Yeah, this time round.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yeah, well, this time we're working with our. The same sound guide that we worked with on just humans and Miley is doing a bunch of work for us as well. So it's the four of us again, plus ilia's younger brother Xavier is starring in.
CRAIG NORRIS
It so this is again I guess one of the first steps is that the network you're working with are kind of primarily a lot of people you're. Like high School, College, university network.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yeah, well, in actually. Well, actually technically not. Mostly like just post high schools. When I wrote most of the people that I work with.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
And it it seems to be people that. We didn't really pay attention to, not not in a rude way. I'm not saying we ignored them. I'm just saying we got them on for something really minor for another project and then we we we noticed something about them that we really liked. And so we went. Yes. Good. Let's let's take this further. Let's see what we. Can do with this.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, exactly. And it's a really. Nice thing to be told. I'd imagine for them that. Hey, we'd like you to be involved further. For a couple of bags of chips or. Something cool.
DANIEL BROOKS
You know you and you entice them with. Here's how much money you'll. Be paid and. They and they do anything you want. No. And that most of them are like, well, I get paid and. I'm like, yeah, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Because, yeah, I mean how that that's always a tricky thing to figure out a budget. So. So within that, I mean there, there. People that are hope, volunteer or or as most of it kind of above board.
DANIEL BROOKS
Paid we we try to make it mostly paid and less and less people don't want to be, which is rare but not as rare as you'd. Think. Yeah. Yeah. Like it. Mostly extras often go. Whoa. Why are you paying me for?
CRAIG NORRIS
That's really interesting.
DANIEL BROOKS
That but.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Because we respect your time and the value you as a human being.
CRAIG NORRIS
Exactly. So if you, yeah, if you guys it's a really important moral and economic decision obviously and then it shifts that relationship from I guess them coming in.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
That's that's why we. Pay all.
CRAIG NORRIS
In and being able to.
Speaker
To you know.
CRAIG NORRIS
Volunteer. And within that there might be a sense of, you know, I I don't need to worry too much about this. And just two. Ohh, these guys pay me a bit of money. I'll actually try and step up to.
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
I mean, it's very important to us that whoever works on our projects. Wants to work on the project and it's not just them being there to. Do us a favour or or get experience to work on their own project. It's it's if you're there where you know we it is our responsibility. Daniel and I's responsibility to make sure that you're emotionally invested as well. And if you're not emotionally invested, then that's a failure on our part.
DANIEL BROOKS
And the emotional investment of everybody involved actually makes the process much funner and easier and easier.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, you've found that three. To previous projects you reported on and.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Yeah. So I think a lot of. A lot of this. Philosophy of how we approach pre production and approach people has come from my previous attempts at making movies. My previous attempts. We're not big love. They were Captain Ahab and the whale.
CRAIG NORRIS
Ohh, right. Metaphysically they were ambitious overreach.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
It was. It was. It was Moby Dick. I I wanted to. Kill the whale at all costs. One of the most important lessons I learned from that era of my failed filmmaking is that the moment you put the project before the people you're working with. Is the moment that the project starts to fall apart.
CRAIG NORRIS
Because I I guess that's part of the myth of filmmaking. You you'll get interviews of some cast on the and obviously this is a different order entirely. But there's Hollywood films. But yeah, we'll talk about the myth where you've got like a William Friedkin or a Kubrick who are just really demanding a lot from their performers, their tyrants.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
They're also probably paying them a lot of. Money and and and and. Like the advantage that film makers like that would have over us. Is the. There is no guarantee that our movies are going to be successful. There's no guarantee that they're going to be viewed by a wide audience. But if someone says Ohh Kubrick wants you, you go ohh that's an opportunity to further my career, OK? I'll. I'll go ahead with it. I'll I'll have to deal with them, but you.
CRAIG NORRIS
Know and I guess that might be lost on someone who's a first time film director thinking. OK, I wanna do something indie. And who's some great film directors? I'm going to copy that kind of toxic model not recognising as you're saying that you know. Well, it's a trade off and also that behaviour really is is, is is quite reprehensive.
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah and.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yes, not acceptable.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
And it's also you you you look at film makers and you go, oh, I wanna be like that, that one I wanna be like Quentin Tarantino. I wanna be like the Coen brothers. Ohh. And then and then you try and write something that's Cohen brothers and and it's not Cohen brothers but you delude yourself. Into thinking it's Coen brothers and.
CRAIG NORRIS
It's a fan fiction.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
It's a fan. Fix this is.
CRAIG NORRIS
Great. I love fan fictions here on the show. I've done couple. That's another.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Show, but it's a. Bad bang section.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yes, yeah, yeah.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
It's not a good fan fiction. It's a it's a horrendous fan.
Speaker
That's right.
CRAIG NORRIS
Fiction. Yeah, it's a self consciously. Yeah. You know, and I guess that's. The difference and if you recognise that no.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
And it is entirely self serving, yes, yes. It's it ends up being poorly written. No one really is interested in it, and if you manage to get it off the ground. You get to post. Production and you've got a pile of nothing.
CRAIG NORRIS
So trying to avoid those as early as possible in the stage you guys are at is so important. So again being able to draw upon those previous mistakes or at least having a clearer vision of, OK, I can see how this can get translated on the sets, yes, so. You've got the. Script for this project that. You've been working on Daniel, yes.
DANIEL BROOKS
So I will how do you do the?
CRAIG NORRIS
Script like are you trying to hit? A certain number of pages do. You have a maths model in mind. OK, that many pages we're looking at this long.
DANIEL BROOKS
A film, sort of. I sort of, don't I don't try to do that because it feels very artificial to me. You know, like you look at it as you're going and you kind of think to yourself, I was 60 pages. It's about an hour plus like things that make it longer in between that aren't necessarily dialogue, so maybe it's an hour 10, you know, sort of guesswork like that. Usually it's about a page per minute, but that could be dependent on a lot of. Different things. So how many?
CRAIG NORRIS
People. Do you have enough? Roughly how many pages you've. 72 is that a good number you're feeling?
DANIEL BROOKS
Yeah, because there's a a few, quite a few of those pages are a paragraph describing something to do, and then nothing.
CRAIG NORRIS
So at this point you've got in the back. Of your head an idea of. How probably 9090 minutes. Right. So we've got the. Script and what's the next step actors so.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Ohh, I think actors and script kind of.
DANIEL BROOKS
That, well, that's what I'm about to say.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Sorry, sorry. Yeah.
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5
The the the.
DANIEL BROOKS
In this case anyway, the actors kind of came around while the script was still being written, because we conceptualised what it was I had brought it to a friend of ours who I thought. This made sense for. And then I and then he was like, wow, excellent. And then he got really into the idea and sort of. He was very he was very. He, you. You would almost say he had a lot of creative input into his own sort of role in it I suppose, but he. Yeah, he was very interested in really making it good. So he was very on me about ideas like calling up all.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right.
DANIEL BROOKS
The time and uh. Here's an idea of uh, stuff like that. He's.
CRAIG NORRIS
And do you encourage that? I'd enjoy that.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yes, yes, definitely. Obviously there's like limits to that and that's something that he understood as well. So and he was even saying ohh I don't wanna like do too. March, but here's here's an idea and I got excellent, you know, so there's a a good balance to hit there between what you want and how much input they have and.
CRAIG NORRIS
So at this point you've got the script and you've got people you've approached. You are now interacting with the idea of the character they might be.
DANIEL BROOKS
And so this this movie is a a sort of. It's mostly about two, two people, and for the vast majority of it run it's run. It's basically just two people. So we then had to work out who the other character was. And so we sort of searched through our our history of working with extras and all sorts of different people who we'd done stuff with. And we were like. Yeah, that guy. And so we sort of worked around who that would be. We figured out that person met them. They were on board. And he's been highly cooperative, too, so we've ended up going out on, like, fishing trips with both of them and helping them get to know each other so that they can work Better Together and have a bit of, you know. Of a relationship and some banter between them just to improve the quality of their on-screen relationship.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Great, because you don't wanna get this there. Really, you don't wanna get to set and then find out that they have zero chemistry.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah. So because you do. Hear like again? Mainly exposure not working on film is through a behind the scenes Blu-ray spec. So like for for like Band of Brothers I remember they say like. They they put them through.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Yeah, fantastic theories.
CRAIG NORRIS
Boot camps, yeah. For some reason thinking, well, maybe the one interesting one was Steven Spielberg's Saving Private Ryan, where they had everyone except for that demon go through boot camp, so it would.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yes, that's fascinating.
CRAIG NORRIS
Develop a bit of resentment towards Matt Damon. Having not had this really tough experience. Yeah, boot camp. So again, that same kind of DNA that you're wanting to. Create some.
DANIEL BROOKS
Some vibes, especially when this movie is so dependent on the relationship between those two characters and you kind of want to have them both be on the same page about what they're trying to achieve. And so when they get out there, they'll instantly kind of know well, this is what our dynamic is and we've been over this and. They sort of go naturally into.
CRAIG NORRIS
It it's quite a commitment though, isn't it? To to to have, I mean, an A luxury maybe to have a bit of time to be able to get some members of the project you're wanting together seeing how they bond or not.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
See this is this is where. I think my side of pre production comes in and that is getting the equipment so whilst Daniel's been doing the heavy lifting on this at the side of things I've been focusing on the equipment and so he doesn't have to think at all about that part of the filmmaking. Process which frees up his time a. Lot to work on that. So I think I think having a partnership. Is so much easier than doing it solo. MMM, now when it comes to freelance work. Freelance commercial work. That's a different story because. You've gotta you've gotta make it commercially viable because you're trying to run a business. I mean, we're we're trying to run a business as well, but I think our business model is way different. To a freelance. Business model. But if you're freelancing and you're doing it by yourself, that kind of makes sense because. You've got to. Make sure that the profits go back to you and not just sort of dilute. Whereas for us, having the creative partnership means. We can really, really optimise. Who does what? Yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Hmm. And at the moment you're focusing on equipment. Yeah. What type of equipment are you juggling at the moment? Well, recently, what have you been?
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Well, I I've basically decided on all of it. Today this morning. It after right? After weeks, months of researching and and hitting my head against the wall, I've come up with the equipment. So it was. A lot of the little things that just quality of life, things for for when you're on set. And and OK. Admittedly, this is where filmmaking can start to get a little expensive. But you don't need any of this stuff when you're when you're first starting out, when you're first. When you make your first movie going for this sort of equipment, this is this is me. Going yes, I've. I'm happy with the progress I'm making. I can.
DANIEL BROOKS
Like you're plateauing with the skill level of the current. Equipment you need to.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Yeah, yeah, the.
DANIEL BROOKS
Sort of.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Yeah, I I need to. I need to improve my equipment because I'm I've outgrown the current equipment that I've got. So. The one of the things is a. I I come in from a both a feedback. And anticipating problems, sort of. Point of view. So when I say feedback I mean. Simon, for example, he.
DANIEL BROOKS
Who was our audio sound guy?
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Yeah. OK. So he he mentioned that. There were problems. With the microphones that we were using and he. He sort of. Got me to listen to the audio and go see and and try to figure out what was going on. And and I went because I I could tell that ohh yes, the quality is a bit. There's something a bit off about this. And then so I had to then. Go right well. Clearly the microphones we're using aren't good enough. I mean the boom. Like was good enough, but the Radio Max were right, so I then had to go, right? Well, why aren't these? Why? What is causing these to not be good? So I had to research. The problems with the with. The radio mics that we're.
CRAIG NORRIS
Using because when you first got them, you've done some research. Yes, some got it. And thought this should. Work. Yeah. And it wasn't until yeah. Post production going through and then time and the other guy is saying, look, it's just not doing what we'd hoped.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Yeah. And then and then him educating me in in some other more technical aspects of of audio as well. And and so. It turns out that the radio mics so that the transmitters and.
CRAIG NORRIS
The receivers and these are mics people. You know these would. Be like you've got a a scene with an actor on a seat and your your camera off like a few metres away and this is a mic which is like in their jacket or a battery pack in their jacket and. A kind of cable going to a mic that's.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Yeah. So, OK, So what we were using are these the GoPro to radio mics, fantastic microphone, not not having a go at at Rd at all with these because they are really, really good microphones. UM.
Speaker
They're, they're.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Little cubes that stick in and they've got their own built in microphone, but they've also got a little thing to put lavalier microphones with and. And that's the little wire that you're talking about. Yes. And so it turns out that although there are some limitations with that system. I I'm confident Simon can work his way around those. They're not. They're not too challenging. The alternative is I fork out and and they're another 2003 $1000. So yeah.
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
So you you you think we? The current tech you've got for those wireless can.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Can work, but I need the. I need good lavalier mics to go with them.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right, so you needed to upgrade that, yes.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
So that part's been upgraded and then the recorder I go I put into well. Sorry, I'm OK for everyone listening. I'm trying to condense one of the messiest aspects of filmmaking from an equipment point of view, and that is the audio equipment because unlike unlike, say. Cameras with Sony? They've got. Ohh Yep. This these are the lenses that go with Sony. This is the this is the software you use with Sony and and you know there's this whole pipeline with with the technology lights it doesn't matter because as long as they.
DANIEL BROOKS
Do the thing that.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Do the thing they're supposed to do they work audio however, it's ohh. No, no, no. So you need Sennheiser lavalier mics. You can get away with the GoPro two radio micro mics you you can use a Tascam recorder but I'm using a. I forget that pre pre mix three or something.
CRAIG NORRIS
It's it's just this and then trying to troubleshoot. How each one of those interact with each other? I like it is. Where's a good source of information? Is it going to a a face and face? Right? Reddit. There is the.
Speaker
There is none.
CRAIG NORRIS
Bing AI chat.
Speaker 5
That's what I do.
Speaker
That there, there.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Is no good source of information for this. OK. It's something that you just. Have to you just have to figure it out.
Speaker 5
Right, they're packed.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
By yourself now this now. I'm sorry, people. This is the most frustrating part of filmmaking to get. Absolutely. Right. But if you want to get this standard that I want to get to, you have to go through. This, but if you. Want if you're not aiming for this standard, then you don't have to stress. Too much about it?
CRAIG NORRIS
So I guess the other way and again in behind the scenes movie things you see where they talk about lip syncing afterwards, right? You just get your your actors in a booth and. They watch the.
Speaker 5
Film and they're they're all the scene and they they try and match. Yeah, well.
CRAIG NORRIS
Is that? Good. Is that difficult? It seems, really. Difficult to do. I know when I've had. To queue up audio.
DANIEL BROOKS
I I don't, I don't think anyone could have ever have done it and it. What the obvious to me.
CRAIG NORRIS
Slightly out.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Yeah, I think the only way you could get away with that is if you had an actor who had. Extremely consistent line delivery, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah. Yeah. And I guess that's one of the. Challenges. If you're looking at an indie. Film. Yeah, with people who aren't actors or some people who are are kind of beginner actors. Yeah, it. Yeah, it's. It's just asking too much. Yeah. So then yeah, it is really important to get right. Yes, on location on the day or else you can't really have anything. Previous pieces you've worked on when the audio hasn't worked, but you really want that, see what what? What are your choices? Right. So you still. Keep the visual. Component as much as you can and then.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
You you try, but there have been occasions where we've had to gut entire scenes and replace them with the worst take because. The audio was.
CRAIG NORRIS
Rubbish, right? So you know. When you've got the finished film and you hit that scene, there's a better. Example of that scene or it was a better take of that scene, but no one can see. And it's like, yeah, OK.
DANIEL BROOKS
But we could use this because, yeah.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
I mean. There are some. Phenomenal performances that no one will ever see because the audio was terrible and that's. Not the fault of. The person recording the audio. Sometimes these things happen, especially when you're filming outside.
DANIEL BROOKS
Ohh yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, wins. The actor suddenly moves their arm against.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yes. Yeah. And I suppose that's another reason that getting the sound right on this movie is particularly.
CRAIG NORRIS
Their the laws.
DANIEL BROOKS
Important because it will mostly be outside.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
And to that end, we have 5 microphones going into this.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, right. So is one way to to solve that. To have backups like a. Lot of.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Likes. So, OK, so you're probably going to get the best quality microphone audio.
Speaker 5
Right.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Go from the shotgun mic.
CRAIG NORRIS
And people that don't know a. Shotgun Mic is that.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
The the the long. Yeah, it's usually.
CRAIG NORRIS
Holding it slightly off screen. Huge, big kind of sausage seats.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Yeah. Yep. And it's a directional microphone and then there will be 4 lavalier mics which will be hooked up to two radio transmitters.
CRAIG NORRIS
And the letter makes for those who were talking about dedicated didn't need a jacket or something or fold in the.
Speaker
Or or or.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
If you want to get creative, just somewhere. In the scene, yeah. Yes, yes, exactly, yes.
CRAIG NORRIS
So the flower pots the.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Book. So I want to give Simon all the options to be able to mix up the actors or put the microphone on something in the scene behind something in the scene. Now, sorry to hijack. The conversation here, but I'm really I'm getting really excited about. Audio equipment even. I I've been.
CRAIG NORRIS
This is literally radio, so it is audio.
Speaker
Perfect.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Sorry I I am not an audio engineer. I have no real education in. Audio it's just. Trying to understand it from professionals points of view so. You can get really creative with audio, so a a lot of indie film makers. They sort of relegate the sound person to just sit in the corner, hold the microphone. And nothing wrong with that. You can go out and get some $20. Lav mics lavalier mikes so sorry, I'm going a bit text. I'm going into tech talk here. You you can get a a couple of $20 LAV mics, hook them up to your phone.
CRAIG NORRIS
Mike, that's good.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
And and either hook either mic up your actors or or plant the microphone which is. Where you put. It put the microphone behind a prop somewhere and so. There's a lot. Potential for some really interesting creative problem solving from the sound recorders point of view. Which is not something that I've seen used a lot in a lot of indie film makers film. A lot of indie films, sorry, a lot of indie films that I've. Been involved with. Opportunity for that creativity has sort of been stripped away from the audio recorders.
CRAIG NORRIS
Because as you're saying, they usually just sit to the side in in the film piece and kind of largely forgotten about as long as it's OK you getting sound. Yes. Alright, let's do.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
It. Yes, exactly. It's you're getting sound. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm recording. Yeah. Good. Excellent, cool. Whatever. Yeah, because it it's all about what it looks like. And and I think it's it's a shame because. When you are directing something. And you you can see what it looks like. You can't hear what it looks like. So I I guess, like a, a lizard. Part of your brain is going. Ohh. Well, I can't hear it. It must be good because I haven't had someone come up to me and say it was bad and I haven't had any. Feedback to say it's bad, it's good.
DANIEL BROOKS
Which is why I think we really lucked out with our sound person because he is phenomenal.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
He's very switched on, yes.
DANIEL BROOKS
And he knows his noise. He knows noise.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
He's he. He's a real. Audio nerd.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah. And that's what you need. Yeah, particularly in indie film, where everyone's kind of learning on the job. It's very deep end kind of learning curve. And yeah, if you get someone that just loves.
DANIEL BROOKS
You always need.
Speaker 5
It then it's.
CRAIG NORRIS
Going to push through that paint.
DANIEL BROOKS
The person who fits a role to kind of be a nerd for that role, and if they are, then your energy is all sort of converge on making something pretty good, yes.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
2 two more aspects of of equipment. Sorry everybody, sorry. So this is perfect so. We had to figure out how to capture actors in a moving car now. You might. Here's a lesson for every. So you might look at that and go, oh, that's impossible. Ohh, that's so difficult.
CRAIG NORRIS
Because you'd have this flow. Of sound pollution, right? You'd have the engine sound the.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
It it's it's that. But also how how do we how do we actually how do we actually?
DANIEL BROOKS
Where does the camera go?
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Where does the camera go with the vaccines are?
DANIEL BROOKS
Yeah. How does? That you.
CRAIG NORRIS
See how is it capturing anything? Ohh.
Speaker
On the dance. Yeah. So so.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
I've gone from the feedback. Part of the equation, which is what Simon has told me over. Over the course of making these movies and I've gone OK, so this is what I have to do. With that information now it's. Now it's a simple Google or sorry search engine of your choice or video streaming service of your choice. You just type in how do I mount a camera onto a car? Yes. And and there you there you have it. What?
CRAIG NORRIS
Are the results you get? I mean you get some. Kind of an immediate. Good ones. Then you get some Indian ones.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Ohh OK. How to mount a camera on to a car? On a budget.
CRAIG NORRIS
And but yes on.
Speaker 5
The budget keyboard.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Yeah. And then.
CRAIG NORRIS
What do?
Speaker 5
You get.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
You you get, you get a couple of options.
CRAIG NORRIS
Go down to Bunnings, get some PVC.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
No, no, no, it's it's, it's a little bit more than that, but essentially someone's already come up with this solution. Someones designed a solution to this.
DANIEL BROOKS
Someones designed it.
CRAIG NORRIS
Problem and what? Well, so. You've done this already or you. You're in this pre production stage, so you.
Speaker 5
We've we've got months.
CRAIG NORRIS
Think. OK, well, we've got. I've bought it. Yeah. We've bought it right, so there's a bit.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Of kit. Yeah, I'm waiting for it to come into the mail.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right. So. Is it? Is it strap onto the car? Is it rubber bands? No, it's it's.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
33 suction cups. That suction onto the car.
CRAIG NORRIS
External part of the car, like the.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Yes, yeah. And then some straps. Oops. Sorry. And then some straps that anchored in properly.
CRAIG NORRIS
Door or something? Ohh good yeah, because I've used suction cups for. My holding my mobile phone and. It'll fall off, yeah.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
These these ones have like a. Little button that you press that that.
CRAIG NORRIS
So really good quality. Yeah. And then. Right until.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
I you know, it's it's weird. Because I have to keep relearning this lesson. How do you do this on a budget? That's all you have to do? How do you blah on a budget? Blah. Done. But I keep having to relearn this lesson because for so long. I I'm racking my brain with how do how do we do this? How do we do that? But the the answers.
CRAIG NORRIS
Already out there, there is a collective creative community that, yeah, particularly with video. Yeah, it's it's likely you're right. Because you'll see a demonstration.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Exactly, exactly. And then one final thing.
CRAIG NORRIS
Of this, yes, yeah.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
So a problem that I and and I'll wrap this up because I I I know I I've taken up quite a lot of the. The the A lot. Of time. OK, I know.
Speaker
8/2.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
I'm sorry, everybody, I'm sorry and. I'm sorry for being sorry.
CRAIG NORRIS
It is fascinating, though it is a fascinating question.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
So it's a good point and so. So on. Another shoot I think it was just humans. I'm not entirely sure I had to choose between the ND philtre and the hood for the camera. So an ND philtre is something that blocks out UV light so you protect the sensor. And I've got a variable ND philtre so it's. Sunglasses for your camera. And I can't mount the cameras. Onto it.
CRAIG NORRIS
The hood is kind of something that.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Stops light, light, light. Sort of shining directly.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, that's that, yeah.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Into the to the West.
CRAIG NORRIS
So it's got baseball cap that you, sorry. That's a bad.
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. No.
CRAIG NORRIS
Enough, but a plastic thing that goes, yeah.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
No, I. I can't mount that I can't mount that. Onto the lens. Whilst I've got the NBA. That's wrong, but again, there's a solution to this.
CRAIG NORRIS
And thank goodness you're searching for it. Exactly so. Because these visible women aren't. Cheap and when they don't fit together, you're like, well, I don't wanna. Yeah, buy youth stuff. I mean, surely.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
So you go camera rig on a budget. 4 model camera. Done and it shows you what you could use and I.
CRAIG NORRIS
Won't and and and I think that's. Great, because it is showing again, demystifying movie, making you. Know it is just.
Speaker 5
A case of.
CRAIG NORRIS
Searching on the Internet sometimes. Yeah, if you can't reject it and it does make people able to do something that that previously, it would just be a gated community. Ohh yeah, people who've worked professionally.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
And some of these solutions if you're. On a real budget. You can just get a piece of cardboard and put it over the camera. Yeah, like a lot of what I'm doing is quality of life things.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, yeah, because it can be reused. It's fit for purpose, yeah.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Yeah, exactly. No, I think that's that's basically the equipment.
CRAIG NORRIS
The tech that's.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
The that's the tech.
CRAIG NORRIS
It's exciting about the car, so the cars. Obviously, when you were strip riding you. Thought OK, it's. Gonna. It's gonna be this great seeing a car. Yeah, and that triggered this whole we've not filmed. A car? No. So what are?
Speaker
For our.
DANIEL BROOKS
We doing? Yeah. No, the the car is very prominent aspect of the movie. So it's a very. The thing we have to get sort of, right?
CRAIG NORRIS
I suppose, and it's probably like, are we talking about like there are famous cars? Of course. There's there's knight riders, car kits. There's the Duke of Hazzard car.
DANIEL BROOKS
I I would hope I would hope that this car ends up famous. I said that to the guy I bought it from that I. Would make it. Famous. So yeah, I we we we bought one especially for it initially we were looking for a.
CRAIG NORRIS
Ohh right, you've. Had to. That's a real commitment. Convertible. Ohh wow. Yeah, styles.
DANIEL BROOKS
Because the original deal was that me and Edward and our lead actor are actually gonna split three ways. Paying for the car. And that meant that he, the lead actor, would end up owning it at the end because he doesn't have a car. And so it was. It was also an exercise in.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right.
DANIEL BROOKS
Getting a car.
CRAIG NORRIS
For him, yes. So his pay would be.
DANIEL BROOKS
As a.
Speaker 1
The car will.
DANIEL BROOKS
No, he'd get extra stuff. He'd get equity and all this other stuff, but he was also gonna get a car out of it. So he was very excited about that, but.
CRAIG NORRIS
OK.
DANIEL BROOKS
My standards for What Car we wanted sort of changed as I was writing the script. And that sort of didn't line up very well with what kind of car he wanted. And so I ended up buying a 1992 Corolla.
CRAIG NORRIS
OK, 92 Corolla yeah idea.
Speaker
Of one of those.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yep, it is it. It is a nice sub, it's. Solid car. I like it. Yeah, but I I wanted something a bit more.
CRAIG NORRIS
It's a client.
DANIEL BROOKS
OK. Yeah. And he he bit a bit box, a bit boxier and all that sort of stuff and he really wanted a a 90, some kind of 90 Saab or a or a Ford Capri. And I was like.
CRAIG NORRIS
It's a Dutch challenger.
DANIEL BROOKS
Well, we keep finding them, but they're all they've either all got something wrong with them or they're too expensive or.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Something catastrophically wrong with them.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yes. So we went and looked at one here and I. It was an old 2000 model Saab that had a cracked firewall.
CRAIG NORRIS
And firewall. That's not the computer firewall. No stops virus is getting.
DANIEL BROOKS
It's it's the. It's the part. From my understanding, it's the wall between the the steering wheel section and the dash and the engine and.
Speaker 5
Infected. This is.
DANIEL BROOKS
Ohh and the and this particular model had this issue. Has always had this issue and so the mechanic that we got to look at it and do a pre. Inspection on it. Happened to have trained using this model of car and so he went straight for that and went Oh yeah, no, don't do it because it's it's a pretty it pretty catastrophic failure if that was the case, if we we've gotten.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
To you. That one? It was a potentially. Fatal defect, right well.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yeah, not not not good, but we have.
CRAIG NORRIS
There you go. So always get a mechanic to have. A look, yes.
DANIEL BROOKS
Now granted the. One we did by has an issue, but it's way easier to fix and it's fixed. So that's all.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right. Excellent, right.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
I believe it's the starter motor.
DANIEL BROOKS
Pretty much, yeah. Seems important. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well, the only The thing is, it just needs the part. Needs replacing. OK, so it's just a part that needs to be replaced and then it'll be just totally fine.
CRAIG NORRIS
So it's an. 82 Toyota Corolla 9290. Two. Yeah, 82 would be a. Classic. Well 90.
DANIEL BROOKS
Ohh that they would be expensive. You too? Yeah, I I think I'm on the cusp of it being expensive.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
There would be two.
CRAIG NORRIS
Ah, yeah. Well. Yeah, I guess there is that speculation market for cars as they move out of a kind. Of nostalgic, groaning kind of so kind.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yeah, yeah.
CRAIG NORRIS
Of Oh yeah, yeah, that, that's. That's general. So 92 Toyota Corolla is gonna feature in this car. You're gonna get little Matchbox collectibles.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yeah, other than that.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Ohh that's an idea.
DANIEL BROOKS
It's going to be a very famous car. I won't end up keeping it, mind you. I'm gonna so it's gonna. Happen to. I'll probably sell. It to somebody and I've already movie. Seen in as seen. And I've already got someone. A friend of mine from Sydney, who who wants to buy it so he's keen. Perfect. But yeah.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
And the sale of that car will go towards.
DANIEL BROOKS
Something future probably our our. Horror comedy in the future, but I'm still more about the this film. It's the core. Principle of it was inspired by something that happened to me. Few months ago or just before I started writing it, probably about a week before. I had gone home from work. And I was just relaxing. And then I get a call from one of my work colleagues who is about 8 years younger than me. And I'm like, what do you want? And he goes, oh, well. And the the two of them are standing there at the same age. And he's like, oh, my, what the other guy's car are not started. And I was like, oh, bummer, he goes. Well, I know you got jumper cables. Do you want to come down and help us? I live pretty close to work good and I was like, alright, sure, I'll come down. And do that, but they weren't like. They weren't distorted by this situation. They thought it was really funny and they were just standing there having a giggle. And they told they told me a story about something that had happened that I was like. Wow. So much energy.
CRAIG NORRIS
It's pretty calm and chill and what would normally. Be very irritating.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yeah, yeah, they just they didn't care so long as I so long as I helped them fix it, it didn't matter. And then they're off on their merry way. And I was just like, ohh to to have that kind of outlook. But I probably would have had at the time when I was 19. But that that thought that got me thinking about. Well, isn't it interesting the differences between someone who was in their late 20s and someone who's like, just turned 20? There's a there's a maturity sort of gap there that I was not reticent to understand until I was almost until I was 27 now. And that got me thinking about potential ideas for that. And I I came up with a little short that was based on that interaction that I'd had. But then I thought of all of it's a whole movie where you get someone who's 28 and someone who's 20 to interact with each other throughout the whole thing. And it's sort of about that dynamic and that's where the name of the movie comes from. It's called 20. 28 right. Not the.
CRAIG NORRIS
Not the year, but the ages as a kind of generation gap kind of. And I guess it is a period of time of yeah rapid growth.
DANIEL BROOKS
That the age.
Speaker 5
Of the people.
CRAIG NORRIS
I mean, you're you're you're often doing a lot of rites.
DANIEL BROOKS
Of passage, yes.
CRAIG NORRIS
At that moment, like you, you may have left home for the first time in your 20. For serious job first computer relationship. There can be a lot of firsts, yeah.
DANIEL BROOKS
Exactly it's.
CRAIG NORRIS
That you're encountering.
DANIEL BROOKS
And and so on that. What what? How do you compare someone who has had all those firsts and had them all gone wrong to someone who hasn't had any of those firsts? And that that's an interesting dynamic that you can play on for a whole script.
CRAIG NORRIS
Yeah, it's an interesting age. Odd.
DANIEL BROOKS
Couple. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's sort of an odd couple sort of movie about them being sort of feisty at each other first, but then sort of coming together as throughout the course of the. Film no, I. I've gotten a few compliments on the script. People think it's pretty good. Yes. Yes. Yeah. No, it's it's pretty cool.
CRAIG NORRIS
This is great news.
DANIEL BROOKS
But yes. What's good about it, though, is that they get.
CRAIG NORRIS
Lost in the Bush right? Bush lamb adventure.
DANIEL BROOKS
Which means, which means that the vast majority of the movie takes place in the Bush, which which makes it easier to organise locations, because then you've got perhaps one location for a big section of it, and then the beginning and end of the movie are a bit more complicated.
CRAIG NORRIS
Right.
DANIEL BROOKS
Because I guess the start of the movie sort of rapid fire through a bunch of different locations we'll need and all that. Sort of stuff. Then the vast majority of the middle of the movie is just them in the wilderness. That was easy because we know a few people who have large properties, who we can just go on there and do whatever.
CRAIG NORRIS
We like because it can be challenging finding locations so.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
And this is where it becomes important to make friends, yes.
DANIEL BROOKS
And so if you can make friends, you expedite the process.
CRAIG NORRIS
Because it can be a real headache. Trying to get permissions and forms.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
And and this is how community works. Communities work when people become friends, and they offer to help each other. Yeah. When you go into making films or when you go into any endeavour and you're not there to make friends, you end up getting burned a lot. I speak from experience. Right, I was not. There to make friends. I was there to achieve my ambition of becoming a big filmmaker. Which is total nonsense. Because because if. If I haven't even. Done the groundwork. I've even bothering. To understand who I'm working with. Being friends with the people I work with. Or at least being friendly with them. Then I don't deserve any any form of success. Umm, the only reason I would ever deserve success from this is because I've helped uplift people along the way. That's how I.
CRAIG NORRIS
Say it, and wonderfully healthy, you know, too sadly.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
No, no, Craig, no doctor Craig.
CRAIG NORRIS
Bring this to an end. We have K pop unlimited coming up next, but no, it has been fantastic to have you guys on Edward Daniel.
DANIEL BROOKS
There's just so much to go over.
CRAIG NORRIS
As the project continues to evolve, it would be fantastic to draw upon those. Problem solving because I'm sure everyone again has always had this idea of Gee, it would be great to do something or it.
DANIEL BROOKS
Looks too difficult, yes. If anyone wants to be involved, we are filming in January and February. Excellent. Anyone wants to be an extra or have some kind of part. Welcome to ask.
CRAIG NORRIS
How can people? Find out more about the work you're.
DANIEL BROOKS
Doing by going to my face.
Speaker
OK.
DANIEL BROOKS
Sound makes me sound sound elderly, I know.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
We're film makers Doctor Craig not. Not PR people. We don't know anything about that.
CRAIG NORRIS
So very grassroots though, great.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yeah. So it's so it's Daniel Brooks, Brooks without an E so BR double OKS.
CRAIG NORRIS
Just just keeping it real. Daniel Brooks. On Facebook, yes. So I'll put some of those links in the show notes, which you can find on media motherships, YouTube and Facebook page as well as on edgeradio.org dot AU. Great. So people can find. Out more about. That so. So you're looking for extras in January, February?
DANIEL BROOKS
Yeah, January. There will be. If if anyone wanted to get more information. I don't have the dates on me, but I can so we can sort that out in the future. It is a couple months away.
CRAIG NORRIS
Had a faithful man. Exiles. Yeah, well, post Christmas, so that's forever. Excellent. Alright. Well look, I I'm wishing you guys all the best. On what will certainly be another fantastic little piece of work and keep us informed on the show and yeah, we'll, we'll definitely have you back as you hit. Yes, there's there's other mile. What's the next milestone coming? So it would be that extras and starting to films. So that would be.
DANIEL BROOKS
That would be excellent. Well, so the next milestone is I want to pre organise who's doing our music so we're not doing it in post production. So having it developed while we're.
CRAIG NORRIS
Music, yeah.
DANIEL BROOKS
While we're doing it at the moment and I've got lots of ideas and a lot of connections now with music. So that's alright.
CRAIG NORRIS
Great. And these are connections you've developed from previous? Projects you've worked on.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yep. And it just so happens that our sound guys in three different.
CRAIG NORRIS
Hands excellent. Yeah. You put yourself out there, start developing a network. It's very exciting to hear how this is coming together and building on previous success and lessons learned. Yes. Well, Daniel, thank you again.
EDWARD WILLIAMS
Thank you for. Having us like.
DANIEL BROOKS
Yes, thank you very much, Doctor Craig.
CRAIG NORRIS
And keep listening to Edge Radio coming up next. Is K pop unlimited with?
Speaker 5
DJ CJ and DJ TJ.
Commenti