Evil Characters: When Humanity Breaks

Craig Yes, you’re listening to media mothership now. We’re back. Yeah, I’ve kind of got everything almost set up here in the studio. This is media mothership. As always, we explore how media can shape our understanding of the world around us. We’re streaming on edgeradio.org dot AU as well as YouTube and Twitch. You can find us on YouTube and Twitch. Just search for media mothership. See us in the flesh. On the video. And during the show, if you have any thoughts of your own, feel free to send us a message on the chat. YouTube or Twitch chat or you can SMS us directly in the studio on 0488811707 so. So as I mentioned, we’re going to be exploring the idea of writing villains, writing evil villainous characters, seeing how those villainous characters from movies and television can be crafted so well, I’ve been enjoying the final episodes. Of the Star Wars series and or, and really relishing the juxtaposition that TV series has between the. The. Evil characters from the empire and the kind of morally ambiguous, I guess at times good characters, and there’s quite a lot of kind of comparison between the two characters or the various characters in the in the. In the show that has got me thinking about villains, how best to portray and set up villains. So we’re going to start with a discussion from film Courage, the film Courage YouTube site. It’s an interesting YouTube site, goes over various. Speaker 5 Then the sirens get louder. Craig This tips and advice for film writing and creating films as well as if you’re enjoying films. Some of the analysis of, in this case a guide to writing evil characters. We’ll we’ll listen to the first set up for it, and then we’ll deep dive into some characters I think. Presents similar motifs of effective evil characters and and not so we’ll we’ll hear the intro. The entry sets up this really interesting character, which we may or may not consider at the point at which we’re meeting them is evil. The the character of war. The white from Breaking Bad. So let’s first hear this introduction to I think this is the first episode of Breaking Bad where Walter White’s character is again at the precipice of. Becoming an evil character. Speaker 5 Walter takes a gun from his underwear, steps up to the road, points the pistol right at the at the road, and stands there while the siren gets loud and if cold open. That’s a great cliffhanger and it’s a ticking clock and it doesn’t get resolved. And we go to the credits. Speaker 6 There’s a wonderful speech in Apocalypse now, which is based on heart of darkness, Joseph Conrad’s novel. And when Martin Sheen is getting his mission to go kill Marlon Brando, Colonel Kurtz, the general who’s giving him the mission, says the theme of the story, which is. There is a conflict in every human heart between the light and the dark, between good and evil, and the light does not always win. Sometimes the darkness overcomes what Lincoln called the better angels of our nature. Every man has got a breaking point. Craig So that was the script writer Pamela J Smith talking about a scene from the Francis Ford Coppola War movie Apocalypse now, set during the Vietnam War and the really fascinating character of. Portraying Kurt. So this is in act one of Apocalypse now as our protagonist, Captain Willard, played by Martin Sheen, is being sat down by his kind of CIA mind. And his character describing to him this descent of a previously considered heroic character played by Marlon Brando, who seems to have. Become ill. Let’s actually listen to that scene from the movie to set in this idea of again how to write a a villain character, an evil character. And the idea here that that Pamela J Smith is presenting is that you you want to be able to have. A breaking point. Where this character or one way of developing the villain character is the breaking point moment where the character. Has is, is. Is broken and becomes evil literally in the scene we just heard there described was Walter White from Breaking Bad. Literally the breaking point for a character to break bad. So here we’ll hear from Apocalypse now. That Breaking Bad moment. Speaker 7 I’m good. And you? Does not always triumph sometimes. The dark side overcomes what Lincoln called the better angels of our nature. Speaker 8 These fools found. Speaker 7 Every man has got a breaking point. You and I have. Speaker 9 Ohh Lord. Craig Interestingly, this idea of breaking points if you search on YouTube for movies with breaking Point moments, a movie that comes up quite. A bit is the. Shawshank Redemption, and again a character refers to breaking points within. Shawshank redemption. So the symbol we’ll hear from now is. Kind of in the third act of the film, where a characters using this phrase, every man has his breaking point. So in the short Shank redemption the we’re going to see here is. Is this moment where an individual, even the strongest individual, will reach this moment of of, of despair or hopelessness? Right. So in in, in Apocalypse now for Colonel Kurtz’s character. The idea they’re trying to grasp get their heads around is is clearly this character has arrived at this breaking point moment. And despair. Hopelessness has driven them over the edge. In this case, in Shawshank Redemption, it’s interesting what that sets up. You know, it’s not setting up a villain turn a heel turn if we’re to use the wrestling parlance, it’s not a a movement that’s breaking the character of Andy. But nevertheless, we’ll hear how this scene gets conveyed with the breaking point moment. Speaker 9 Ohh Lord. Speaker 8 What? Speaker 9 Andy, come down to loading dock today. He asked me for a length of rope bro 6 feet long. You gave it. Speaker 6 Oh God. Speaker 7 Remember Brooks hatlen? No. Speaker 8 And you’d never do that. Speaker 10 Every man has his breaking point. Speaker 11 Man missing on Tier 2 cell 245 New Friday. Get your *** out here, boy. You hold up the show. Don’t make me come down there. I’ll thump your skull for you. Damn it, dude friend, you’re putting me behind. I gotta schedule the cake. You better be sick or dead in there. I sick you not, you hear me? Ohh my holy God. Speaker 2 Michael corleones. Craig So it’s an interesting moment there as we can hear from that scene in the third act, wear red and the other inmates. Are. Are beginning to fear that Andy may. Have lost hope. And that moment that Morgan Freeman’s character reads, referring to the breaking point. Moment is that. Speaker 1 You know. Craig Has has Andy lost hope instead actually here that breaking point dialogue is a misdirection to the audience, whereas rather than a moment of of kind of turning to hopelessness and despair, it’s it’s actually overcoming. That’s the resilience of the character after that scene. As we just heard a little bit of a teaser there. If we think about that idea, though, and jumping back to the writing guide of Breaking Point Moments. It’s interesting to consider those moments where a character. Does have the the character arc is about exploring a breaking point, so one of the best examples of this would be the Godfather and the character of Michael Corleone. Who begins the film initially as a hero? Literally. World War 2 Soldier considered heroic in that first act. He’s on a pathway to to marry. He’s not part of his family business, which turns out to be part of the Mafia, and he doesn’t want anything to do with that. Criminal empire and during the course of the movie, it’s fascinating to see as he reaches a breaking point as he turn, he breaks. Bad he becomes an evil character, or at least a morally compromised character by the end, and this transformation, I guess from from a a heroic character into a ruthless mafia boss represents. For many people, a a fantastic Breaking Bad exploration, let’s listen to a couple of clips. What I’ve created here are some really interesting clips. From a series of YouTube shorts. Where various YouTube movie analysis channels have created short little 1020 second clips of character exploration. The reason why I’m doing these YouTube shorts. And they’re very AI based in terms of, you know, you can hear that distinctly AI voice that’s coming in is that I think it’s really setting up, you know, the dominant way of reading these characters if. We understand audience meaning making through Stuart Hall’s reception theory. You can see it having 3 aspects, 1 the kind of dominant reading which is the reading the mainstream reading, the reading that you know the the director intended you to get. Is the reading that the audience is kind of matching up to, so a lot of these YouTube shorts are pretty much going to be the dominant reading a lot of AI searches you do will give you more often than not a dominant reading in terms of they’ll be looking for something, particularly if the search is not asking for. Or a resistant or a positional reading. It will just give you what it’s been able to dredge through from mainstream sources, often trying to avoid a kind of overt controversial position. You know it will take a neutral tone often the AI. Certs so these little AI clips I’ll play from various YouTube channels. Exploring character identification are fascinating because of the way to set up a dominant reading. Of the Breaking Bad idea for a character development. There is, of course, as Stuart Hall argues, always negotiated and oppositional readings that audiences can play around with. So it’ll be interesting to see whether or not those Breaking Bad ideas that some of these channels suggest are at the core of those characters are not there at all. Or maybe there’s a negotiated reading partially in that. Camp but also saying this character also is sympathetic in. Of. You know the Michael Quarry Leone character is a great one in terms of, yes, well, you could say he breaks bad to become an evil mafia kingpin. You could also say, you know, there’s a lot of family loyalty and and survival, the ability to survive there, which is a kind of negotiated reading of that character, is not completely morally. Bankrupt and evil, he has good aspects. You know, a survival instinct, a a strong loyalty to family. Or an oppositional reading. But. Let’s read. Let’s listen to. This Michael Corleone transformation, Part 1 YouTube short from the Channel character chronicles. Speaker 2 Reluctance to join the family business reveals his inner conflict. See the moment he questions his path. Speaker 12 When when Johnny was first starting out, he was signed to this personal service contract. Now Johnny is my father’s. And my father went to see this band and he offered him $10,000 to let Johnny go. But the band leader said no. The next day, my father went to see him, only this time with Luca Brizzy. And within an hour he signed a release or a certified check of $1000. Speaker 6 Why do you do that? Speaker 12 Luca Brazzi held a gun to his head and my father assured him that either his brains or his signature would be. On the contract. That’s my family cake. It’s not me. Speaker 13 1. Craig See, that’s my family key. Not me. Again, act one. Heroic character of Michael Polyone. Played by Al Pacino, the idea that he’s actually a a heroic character, not Breaking Bad. That’s his family, his family’s mafia, right. They’ll they’ll send a heavy in to threaten the death of of of this poor guy so that they get what they want. So instead here we have this moment of the character transitioning into something else. So let’s have a look another YouTube short from the cinema craft here again, unpacking those pivotal scenes which made Michael Corleone. Great. Bad. Speaker 10 These moments showcase Michael’s transformation from reluctant outsider to ruthless Mafia leader shaping the film’s tragic arc. Michael introduces Kate to his family but insists he’s different. Speaker 12 That’s my family, Kate. It’s not me. Speaker 10 Distancing himself from the mob life. When his father is nearly killed, Michael realises the family’s vulnerability, starting his pull into the business. Speaker 12 I’m with you now. Speaker 10 Michael kills Sollozzo and McCluskey making his first violent move and committing to the family’s way in hiding Michael Mary’s Appolonia. Speaker 11 No, no. Speaker 10 Her murder hardens him and pushes him further into the criminal world. Vito’s passing cements Michael is the head of the Corleone family, stepping into his father’s shoes. Michael orders the elimination of all rivals during his godson’s baptism, sealing his fate as the ruthless godfather. Speaker 12 Make him an offer you can’t refuse. Speaker 1 Here’s a TV. Craig So there’s a number of steps there that that example of the pivotal scenes that made Michael Corleone evil or the Mafia king around that idea of of a breaking point and the first one, the one. The the death of his his father. And his sense of being brought into the family through killing the corrupt police officer is that that, you know, first kind of breaking point idea of. His, his, his gradually getting pulled into the Mafia so that as we heard in those other clips his he’s making offers that the other character cannot refuse. Let’s get back to film Courage now and hear some other tips on how to write. An evil character. Speaker 5 Then the sirens get louder. Walter takes a. Speaker 6 It’s novel, stubborn. Speaker 14 This came from Cliff Osman. Was my acting coach and he said. He said he had never seen a decent portrayal of Hitler. Because. The the person so vilified by society that no actor had ever played him from a true place. He was always a villain and he said, you know, who didn’t think Hitler was a. Hitler. Hitler didn’t think he was. A villain at all. Hitler thought he was doing amazing things for this race of people, and he said because of that, you don’t get a real, honest portrayal, he said. You cannot. Judge. Your character. In fact, you have to think of yourself as. Your character’s attorney. Ohh wow, you have to plead your case. Or the case of the character to the audience. You can’t do that if you’re judging the character. And I took that with acting. And I also took that into my writing as well. You know, everybody is coming from a place where they think they’re doing the right thing. Speaker 6 Why? Speaker 14 You know, so. That’s. I think that’s really important actually when you’re developing. Characters. There’s a minute you judge character. You’ve got a 2 dimensional. Character. You know you’ve got a flat. You know, it’s like, OK, I know this guy’s story. He’s the bad guy or he’s the good guy. Speaker 6 Whatever it is, even good characters do bad things and I think. Speaker 14 Right. And that’s the thing, it’s that the complexity of life, you know, no one’s. Speaker 3 They’re justified for you. Speaker 14 All bad or all good. Speaker 10 In order to create a. Craig All right. So we’ll pick up some ideas there by the actor and script writer Marcus Redmond, particularly his point of when you’re writing a villain. Think of yourself as a character’s attorney, which is a, you know, a really fascinating way to avoid that mistake. Of just doing A2 dimensional cardboard, cut out villain and instead. Recognise as Marcus Redman says. There’s no good versions of Hitler because everyone sees him as A2 dimensional character rather than not let’s have a look at the idea of Walter White and the change. He goes through. Speaker 1 So here’s a TV character moment that I think was just brilliant writing. When Walter White gets diagnosed with cancer, he worries over financing his treatment and supporting his family. But when a wealthy friend, having heard the news, offers him a good job, seemingly so. On a plate to save he so desperately needs, Walt just stares back at him, insulted by the very idea that he needs someone’s help. So Walt dives into a life of crime, becoming a multimillionaire on a foundation of sin to prove that he is capable until years later, his enemies catch him, beat him, rob him, and leave him for nothing. So defeated Walt calls to turn himself in until he turns on the TV. And sees that same friend giving an interview talking about how little he regards Walter White. And suddenly despite a lifetime having passed, the grizzled Walt is pulled back to. The moment seething at the idea of being looked down on so he gets up, evades the troopers and sets out to correct him. And with just that moment, the show makes overwhelmingly clear that after five seasons of triumphs and losses, that could have helped anyone grow, Walter White remains now, as he has been from the beginning and impressively intelligent man with the fragile ego of a child. Speaker 3 The explosion kills Rachel, which? Craig That was that was the example of of Walter White. There again, a great character in terms of breaking in, breaking a breaking point character where his breaking point as that argument from the reliable narrator channel. Argues. That actually, Walter White’s character is breaks bad because. His ego is. So fragile that he he cannot allow his, you know, ego not to be seen as brilliant, which means throughout. And it’s an interesting Breaking Bad. Have you seen Breaking Bad? Taylor I I haven’t seen anything to do with breaking. Craig Bad. Well, there’s a great moment in this series, right? Characters, very sympathetic at the start. Of course, the character Walter White diagnosed with cancer, decides that he is. Taylor Yeah. Craig All of his earnings are not sufficient to take care of his family, but then through a a school student he’d taught realises there’s a lot of money to be made in drugs, so it’s it kind of is going to pursue that pathway. But then a a rich friend of his. Taylor Yeah. Craig Who finds out that he’s got cancer, says well, why don’t you come and work with me? You know, you you won’t be asked to do too much, but I can provide for you and make sure your. We set up and his sense of crushed ego just being getting a handout was so significant that that he, that’s one breaking point. He reaches right where he decides. No, screw you. I’m don’t need your hand out. I’m better than you. Taylor I wanna make a. Legal drug I’m gonna make. Craig And then throughout, as this channel saying, he increasingly he makes the it’s not a a kind of 1 breaking point and then becomes evil. It’s a series of breaking points through which he makes morally ambiguous, bad bad behaviours. My co-host Taylor’s joined. Hey. Hey. So now one of the other things. And while you’re here, actually, we may as well jump into one of the other parts, which is. Good characters sometimes make bad decisions, right? So there’s a number of points with it. Marcus Redmond, the script writer there is talking about moments when. Where you know you want to write complicated characters, you want to advocate for your character and be their attorney. And there are moments also where good characters do bad things, right? It’s not black and white. You don’t want to do just a black and white character. I I got a YouTube short here from the Harry Potter central because I know these are. Films you have seen the characters you do. Taylor I know this. Yeah. OK. Craig OK, so this is 1/5 of the worst things done by good characters. Taylor In Harry Potter. Craig In Harry. Taylor OK, we’ll do. Craig Is we’ll listen to some of these and we’ll discuss whether indeed, these these are kind of breaking point moments, right? These are these are these are moments where. Yeah. Taylor Dumbledore. Stumbled or should be #1. You raised Harry Potter like a pig for slaughter. Speaker 16 Five of the worst things done by good characters #1 Jenny ended up opening up the Chamber of Secrets by complete accident, and Tom used her for her whole first. Craig Year at Hogwarts, Jenny opened up. Taylor The Chamber of Secrets. Craig Chamber of Secrets. What was her motivation for doing? Taylor That she was being possessed. That’s not. Speaker Oh. Taylor Really a motivation? Craig So her character her. Taylor Kaden did something bad, but she was. Craig A bad thing? Did a. Taylor In control. Craig Of it right, it’s that that’s pretty excusable. Taylor Apart, apart from, apart from the fact of that she was talking to Tom Riddle in a book. And shouldn’t have been. Craig Doing that and there were weaknesses in her character, right? So there were flaws. There was like loneliness or craving. Male attention. Yeah, that that then caused her to make a bad decision. Yeah. It wasn’t a Breaking Bad point, right? She didn’t become an evil character after. Taylor Yeah, yeah. Craig That was she. Taylor I really do like. I really do like the sort of like the undertones of ginnies talking to the the book though, it’s it’s. Craig Because Tom Riddle. Taylor It’s. Because it’s talking in, in, in terms of, like, it’s an obvious connection. Between spilling your secrets onto the Internet. That’s what rights. Craig Yep, a strong, strong metaphor of that. Yeah, yeah. Alright. Well, it’s just number two of the, you know, worst things a good character does from Harry. Speaker Yeah. Speaker 16 Potter #2 double doors love for Grindelwald wasn’t the bad decision, but that doesn’t change the fact that Grindelwald ended up being who he was. #3 I want. Craig Alright, hold on. Taylor Well, I I couldn’t get my brain around that was. Speaker 17 So. Craig Great. What’s the character? What’s the connection between Grindelwald and Dumbledore? This is fantastic piece, right? Taylor I I will be honest, I haven’t. Really paid attention to Fantastic Beasts and I haven’t even seen the last one of fantastic beasts I didn’t like. Craig All right, let’s. Yeah, that’s fine, that’s. Fine. All right. Taylor The thirsty so much. Speaker 16 #3 he was #3 all dobbies attempts at saving Harry Potter and Chamber of Secrets were all actually pretty bad decisions, including jinxing them. Number. All right, all right. Taylor Who’s Dobby, who’s dobby? Craig Dobby, obviously the one and only they’re my favourite character from the whole series. Taylor Really. Craig He’s such a he’s. Like JoJo binks? Right. He’s like, you know, and that’s and JoJo. Binks is an interesting Breaking Bad character. Because JoJo Big’s character was so irredeemable in terms of. You know, a kind of childish character that. Kind of devalued the entirety of the Phantom Menace series that fans then said this card would be much more interesting if in. Fact he was a dog was a tough. Speaker 16 He. Craig Yeah, a sith. A Sith character, right said that. Taylor Yeah. Craig Yeah, he, he. Broke bad. So many fans say that that, yeah, John, John Banks was. The ultimate puppet Master Sith character that was Breaking Bad through. Dobby does does Dobby make bad decisions? Taylor Oh, absolutely. Craig And are those breaking point decisions right? Those are those are bad decisions which which cause. Taylor Them to go to the dark side. Yeah, no. Craig No. OK, well, but what his his decisions do have ramifications. He does die. Thank goodness. Spoiler alert. Taylor Something you never managed to do. Craig But again, yeah, good characters can do bad things, but in this case dobbies bad things were all you know, how would you characterise the bad things? Taylor It was still under like, because he had to hide it from the Malfoy family, who owned him, right? Yeah. And so he had to do it in these sort of surreptitious sort of dangerous ways instead of actually actually coming out and going. Fixed, sorry, fixed fixed. Craig Haggard. Alright. Haggard’s you know. Let’s see what the. Speaker 16 Grid having Harry and Ron find Aragog might have helped clear his name with them, but they almost ended up getting eaten in. Craig The process. So what’s the story with Aragog again? Taylor Yeah. Follow the spiders. Follow the spiders. No, that’s Fang. Craig Said the big dog. Speaker 18 OK, right. Taylor Which followed the spiders into the the Forbidden Forest, not the Black Forest that’s in Germany, into the Forbidden Forest. And at the end there’s a massive spider who tries to feed him, feed them to. Craig So. Taylor The family. That’s why the family. Craig Good characters do bad things. In this case. Hagrid, who is you know, kind of a mentor, a kind of custodian to the boys, right? He’s. Taylor Yeah, yeah. Craig The the 1st. Wizarding character the Harry needs really and he’s he’s he. He very much means well. What was he screw up here? Now is the bad thing. Taylor Well, cause he was just about to go to Azkaban right? And and so he needed people to basically know that it wasn’t him who had the the creature that was killing everyone, IE the basilisk. Speaker Right. Taylor And so he sent Harry and Ron into the forest. To me, almost certain peril. Young kind. Speaker Cheap. Craig Of you know. Taylor 15 year old. Craig 50 year old school student. Taylor Oh no 12 year olds. Craig Yeah, into into a known dangerous place. Yeah, yeah. Taylor Yeah. Craig There are no repercussions. Did he lose his joy or he lost? Taylor His not really. Craig OK. Last one number. Speaker 16 #5 Harry almost ended up killing Draco Malfoy with Sectumsempra, and luckily Snape was there to. Speaker OK. Speaker 16 Reverse the effects. Craig All right, so. So. Harry’s bad decisions. Yeah, right. Taylor He’s reading the half blood Princess potion book and scribbled into the side pages is an unknown spell and it is and it says 4 enemies and so he just decides to use it on Draco Malfoy, his in enemy and always kills. Craig Him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that the only reason, Malfoy. Lived was because Snape was there. Taylor To yeah. To reverse the facts because he invented that. Craig Spell. Really. Mind blown. So again, potentially yes, that could have been a breaking point for Harry, right? Actually killing so many people point out that’s a that’s a moment where a hero often does turn to a more morally complicated or compromised character where the. Taylor I mean that’s that’s that’s that’s another thing with the half blood Prince. Like if you watch the movie you have snake there going and he goes I am the half blood Prince and it’s like yeah sure. What So what how how are you the half blood Prince and gets rid of all of this entire back story with the back. He is. He’s a half blood and his muggle mother, her last name was Prince. And so therefore he was 1/2 blood. Craig Alright. Prince, I mean, I mean, snitch character is interesting in terms of a a villain, right? I mean, he very much comes across as the villain. A what? What was the breaking point? Sneep right. It was his left triangle, wasn’t it? Between Harry’s parents? Taylor But that’s the point. Snape was never banned. Craig And sneads it. Wow. So the reveal comes, but nevertheless, the reason why he’s not. Taylor But snipe, snipe snipe started off as a bad character. Mm-hmm. And the breaking point to him turning good was the love triangle with his mother, with, not with his mother without his mother. Craig Yeah. OK. Yeah, that’s interesting, right. So. With his mother. Yeah. Yeah. So in ways, yes. Snape broke good because he’s from. Slytherin family and everything, right? His his character is meant to be. Yeah. Evil. Yeah. Right. So yeah. OK, so that’s a really interesting counterpoint that that he breaks. Good. All right, next one. We’re going to listen to. So going back to that initial idea of moments in where movie character breaks, it reaches a breaking point. Let’s listen now to Harvey Dent, Dark Knight, DC comic books, the villain character. Taylor Ohh 2 faced isn’t it? Craig Face 2 face. There we go. So in Dark Knight. Take movie by. Christopher Nolan is going to say Christopher Columbus Christopher Nolan introduces Harvey. Dan very much sets him up as as the white knight, right. He’s an idealistic District Attorney, but then he’s broken right here. So what breaks this idealistic. Attorney District Attorney, let’s listen to WIOR channel for Harvey dense transformation. Speaker 13 Did you know? In the dark night, Harvey dense transformation into two face after being severely burned on one side of his face mirrors real life cases of individuals undergoing significant physical and psychological changes due to traumatic events. This powerful scene demonstrates how trauma can profoundly alter a person’s identity and moral compass. Making it one of the most compelling and realistic portrayals of character transformation in cinema. Speaker 1 You either die. Craig Well, let’s see it. Emotional trauma. The emotional trauma, though, is this one. Speaker 3 The explosion kills Rachel, which leaves Batman devastated since he intended to save her. However, he manages to rescue Harvey before he too is killed in the explosion, but Harvey is left severely disfigured and mentally destroyed by the tragedy. Speaker How? Speaker 13 Did you know in? Craig The dark, so that’s end of Act 2. What happens is the Joker challenges Batman and. Commissioner Gordon to save Rachel, who’s the love interest of Batman and Harvey Dent, right. They’re in two different locations. They’ve both got bombs that are about to explode and. Taylor What’s this in the movie? Craig Yeah, isn’t there? And they’ve gotta split up to rescue them. It’s it’s a set. Up for the? Taylor Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do remember. Craig 3rd app, right? So Batman goes to save Rachel and Attorney Commissioner Gordon goes to. Dave. Harvey Dent, but. The Joker has sprung a surprise and Batman was actually going to a Harvey dentist, right? Batman successful, says Harvey Dan, but thought it was Rachel. Commissioner Gordon wasn’t successful. Rachel dies anyway, so it’s that trauma where where Harvey Dent thinks that, right. It’s interesting. Taylor Rubbish. Coming to school. Craig Again, the idea of Rutrum A is almost click on it. Speaker 1 You either die a hero. Or you live long enough to see yourself. Speaker 2 Become the villain. Speaker 18 Store. Speaker Face Gotham’s bright future. Speaker 11 It’s about what’s. Craig Right. Yep. So that’s again one of these. Other cliches of. Become the villain. You either die the hero or live long enough to become the villain. Interestingly, I saw that as a meme today where someone posted these frozen meals. That were Gordon Ramsay granted Gordon Ramsay’s frozen pasta, Gordon Ramsay’s frozen sausages. That yeah, you just put in the microwave to eat. It’s like that’s that concept. You either, you know, die early as the hero or you live long and become the the villain. So again, the idea there being if Harvey Dent had died in that second act explosion, he would have died. Speaker 11 OK. Taylor Yeah. Craig Hero, right? Everyone would still have remembered him as the heroic. District Attorney. But then he justifies his sense of of revenge by, you know, he’s he’s he hasn’t died, but he’s now become the villain. Interesting one here is Jack Torrance’s character in the shining. Speaker Hmm. Craig Not seeing it? Great horror film. Alright, it tells the story of the character Jack Torrance. It’s a Stephen King novel based on Stephen King novel. This is a clip from the movie by Stanley Kubrick. Taylor I’ve seen it. Craig Great. Well, there’s there’s one horror film we’re not talking about. The Jack Torrance played by Jack Nicholson and it’s interesting, this, this, this, the art of narrative YouTube channel is is here presenting his theory on the breaking point for Jack Torrance’s character. Why do we go from this character that is. Not crazy to by act too crazy. Crazy. Speaker 18 Drove Jack Torrance crazy. I think the answer isn’t as clear as you might believe. Any fan of the film could recite a combination of factors that contributed to Jack’s Madness. The isolation of the Overlook Hotel, located in a remote area that is cut off from the outside world in the bleak white winter, the hotel’s dark history of violence, or the ghosts of the former guests and employees who haunt Jack and torment him, bringing out his worst demons. And finally, Jack’s own alcoholism and mental instability. All of these factors combined created the perfect storm that drove Jack to madness, but these all missed one important clue. Jack’s complete inability to write in the absence of all other distractions, Jack is forced to confront. Speaker How’s it going? Speaker 18 The horrifying truth, his utter lack of talent. And that is. Craig Lack of talent, right? So the position that the our narrative is presenting is that it’s because Jack. Torrance’s cart has been deceiving himself. He’s actually not a good rider. The whole thing is that he’s gone to do the winter caretaker for this hotel, so he has time to write his great novel. As we see in the film, though, you know he doesn’t. He’s not actually able to write, and he becomes increasingly frustrated by his wife and his child. He turns to alcohol, but the core breaking points concept that this are narratives presenting is that it’s it’s his own self delusion and self deceit. And craving for success, which has which is which has broken him, that he he cannot, he does not understand himself and he does not understand himself that ultimately he’s just not a good writer. He’s not capable of it. Let’s let’s have a look at Anakin Skywalker. Speaker 18 Star Wars? Yep. Taylor OK. Speaker 17 When did Anakin Skywalker fully embrace the dark side? Some believed it happened when he defied the Jedi Order to save Chancellor Palpatine from Mace Windu. Others think it was his rampage on Mustafar where he betrayed the wife he once held dear. The logical time was when he slaughtered younglings in the Jedi Temple. Yet we learn in the rise and fall of Darth Vader. That Anakin still thought of himself as Anakin when Emperor Palpatine crossed the lava shores of Mustafar to his apprentices burned body. It wasn’t until he was sealed inside his life support suit and the emperor asked Lord Vader if he could hear him that Darth Vader realised Anakin was God. It was upon learning that his wife and child were dead at his own hands, that Vader lost all hope. His wife was gone forever, leaving him devoid of love. And in that moment he fully surrendered to the dark side. Craig Yeah. So I mean there’s a number. Of moments in. The film, where the character of Anakin does a number of bad things. Right, killing the younglings. Most people would say, is a moment. Where he he’s broke. Right. He’s a breaking point. Taylor No, that was valid. Craig Yeah, well, this is what? This this is what Star Wars apprentice is saying. That’s not actually the breaking point, because he still sees himself as Anakin, right? Still redeemable. I guess his argument is it’s the moon, which not only is he encased in the life. Support system of the Darth Vader uniform, but he’s told by Palpatine that you know his wife is dead as well. In fact, let’s listen to that scene. Speaker Just help me save at least like. Speaker 7 I can’t live without. Speaker 8 Where is she and your anger? Speaker 11 No. Speaker 7 I couldn’t. She was alive. I felt it. Craig Ohh alright yeah. So the idea being that yeah, it’s it’s that moment in which. He he thinks he’s killed his wife. Well, she does die, actually, after his church forced hold on her. Yeah, so. I I can’t, you know, so there there’s some interesting thoughts there around writing evil characters. My takeaway actually is the point that. That you’ve got to think of yourself as a character’s attorney, right? You can’t just reduce the character to being. I need a bad guy, so he’s just irredeemably bad. Make yourself the characters attorney, understand that every character sees themselves as heroic or the centre of the movie. Or not kind of, you know, kind of non functional evil, right? They they see themselves as justified. Yeah. For the actions they’re taking. So that’s media mothership for this week. Do we have? Another show after. Taylor This no, but I we’re. I’m going to run some tests to make sure that what I’ve got will work so. Craig Great. Fascinating. Alright. Well, keep listening then to Edge radio. We’ve got some some great tunes coming in. Think about those ideas of breaking point moments and characters right? What movies have you seen, where there’s been a breaking point moment? Events that’s caused the character to turn evil. If you’ve enjoyed this episode of Media mothership, check out previous episodes on your podcast provider of choice. We have a Facebook page, Instagram as well, so feel free to jump on those two. This has been your host, Craig, joined by co-host. For another. Taylor Week bye same. Craig Bye.